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3/2/2012 8:50 PM
 

evanhill wrote
 

 If you want a heavier but considerably less expensive pipe out of stainless, get yourself set up at tiGoat. (that's the only thing I'll buy from tiGoat, btw). So far, I've ended up choosing stainless each time.

Here's another source for stainless pipes.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#shim-stock/=ghudd2

I get the 12" wide X 50 or 100" long .004 thick soft annealed stainless shim stock.  Don't know TiGoat prices, but these guys are reasonable.

 
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3/2/2012 10:40 PM
 

Good link, and welcome to the forum Rockchucker. 

McMaster-Carr truly is a treasure trove for guys who grew up with Erector Sets.   Endless possibilites.......

 
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6/14/2012 5:05 PM
 

Hello everyone, new member here gettin ready to take a stab at one of these.  I was recently in my local Target and found a stainless toilet paper canister for $16.  Basically it holds about 4 rolls of TP staked vertically with a lid.  It measures roughly 5.5" x 15".

I was considering using this as a potential stove body due to the fact that I could cut it to 12"s or so and store my stovepipe inside.  I saw one potential drawback with it though.  On the inside you could see the seam were they joined the stainless and it didn't look too strong.  You could not see the seam on the outside, but I'm concerned that this area might be a weak spot and split over time and numerous heat cycles.  The canisters everyone has been using do not have this seam.

What do you all think?  Is this a potential failure point or would it be fine if I positioned the seam in the right location.  If you think it would work, where do you suggest I position the seam, top, side, bottom?  I would hate to have this thing split open when I'm out in the woods expecting to have a warm evening.

Thanks

 
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6/14/2012 10:26 PM
 

Hmm interesting.  I would put the seam on the bottom.  Cutting the pipe hole through there may be a little funky.

At only 5.5 in diameter, you couldn't really build up a whole lot on top of the seam, weight wise.  You could make your own metal cable rings to wrap the body with.  That may support it if it did bust.  I think if the seam did crack from heat, maybe it would be a small one that grew over time.  If a few little coals fell out of the bottom of your stove, oh well.  If its a cheap enough project, maybe put your own expiration date to not tempt fate.

Dunno man.  I would love to see pics though.


----------------------------------------------------------------------- Excuse me while I whip this out.
 
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11/12/2012 11:59 AM
 

First post; thanks for the tutorials on the wood stove and stove jack install.  They made doing both very easy.  I put the jack in my Megalight, you can see pictures here: http://bedrockandparadox.com/2012/11/11/wood-stove-acalculia/

After two uses I've been getting less than stellar heat output, and am looking for advice on how to improve.  On a few occasions (like in the photo above) I've been able to get things cranking pretty good, but it always seems very short lived.  This is my first experience with a wood stove of this sort.

 
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11/12/2012 12:12 PM
 

Hi Dave

 

Fancy seeing you here. You are the Dave of the Bob Marhsall Race etc correct ? 

 

Kevin


http://www.seekoutside.com | sig added by EH... go check out Kevin's stuff!
 
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11/12/2012 12:27 PM
 

Greetings Dave. Good on ya for tackling this project.

Everything looks pretty right to me -- vent placement and quantity, fuel type in your first picture for building a good bed of coals to start with. On my most recent trip with the "little pig", I had the pipe cherried out all the way to the ~6'  peak of a Backountry Shelter. You should be able to get similar results. What I think probably needs improvement:

  • Ladder up to 4" diameter saw logs (maybe split in half depending on moisture content) once you have a good bed of coals. That will create a longer burning fire that still puts out good BTUs.
  • Maybe more ventilation. You can tell on that one by playing with the door while you burn. If you get better draw with the door open than you do closed, then you need more ventilation. With the right amount of ventilation in the right spot, the fire actually cranks up rather than down when you close the door because it creates a forced bellows effect through the coal bed.
  • This is the biggest one - The megamids let a *lot* of cold air in underneath the edges. You've got to be able to seal your space. I had mesh sewn onto the bottom perimeter of my mid when I had it, and the only time I was able to use a stove to get it really warm in there was when I had the entire perimeter pinned down with snow on the mesh sod skirt. If I were you, I'd sew enough of a sod skirt onto the perimeter of that mid to make for a completely enclosed space.

We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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11/12/2012 12:44 PM
 

Yes sir.  New course next year; less snow, more water.

 
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11/12/2012 12:50 PM
 

Thanks Evan, will get it out again this week and report back.  A ~4" sil snowskirt is something I've been thinking about anyway, given that this is becoming a cold half of the year shelter. 

What would probably be called UL backpacking by most has consumed my interest in the past few years, so the weight calculus is where I go with this by instinct.  Obviously being able to ditch a conventional stove and fuel is one area of weight savings, though doing that in Grizz country has drawbacks.  I rather doubt the stove will allow me to save much weight with lighter clothing and sleep gear.  I'll be content with being able to dry stuff reliably, as well as the psychological boost of an exterior source of warmth (which will of course make other things more efficient).

Cheers gents.

 
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11/12/2012 1:07 PM
 

I don't think you're going to be able to drop weight by adding a woodstove. This thread is a good discussion on the pros and cons:

http://www.hillpeoplegear.com/Forum/tabid/679/forumid/23/threadid/3871/scope/posts/Default.aspx

I say it in that thread as well, but what a stove allows me to do is leave my emergency insulation layers at home - emergency defined as worse weather than is reasonably expected or weakened physical state. If you've been doing the UL thing for a while, you've probably jettisoned most of that insurance gear anyway.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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11/12/2012 3:55 PM
 

In the case of trips with 2 or 3 people I think stove weight can easily be justified as Evan has stated by allowing the emergency or replacement layers to be left at home. For single use, it's hard to make the weight make sense, but it can sure make your trip more enjoyable. The lightest I've been able to get a stove is our experimental little sibling stove at 8 ounces. That does not include pipe and that depends on the size of shelter. We (a friend and myself) used the little sibling on a April crossing of a good section fo the San Juan Mountains. The second day we trekked / snowshoed/  postholed about 12 miles, mostly above timberline, sometimes on solid snow, sometimes postholing to our waist. We only ran the "little sibling" a couple hours in the tent the second night, but it was a very welcome respite after the long / cold day.  I will say, a couple weeks ago I camped in a really cold little basin up by timberline, and we decided not to take a stove to save weight. We ditched everything we could. It was COLD that night, and we had a nice fire, that warmed us a little. I will say though, that even then, the stove probably would have been wise to take, at least like the sibling stove and the reason is just a better nigths sleep. The good warmth before bed, would have probably resulted in much sounder sleep. The 1 lb of extra pack weight probably would have been negligable due to the better rest.

 


http://www.seekoutside.com | sig added by EH... go check out Kevin's stuff!
 
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11/12/2012 4:03 PM
 

Kevin, that reminds me of a principle you talked about before that I really liked - something like "least effort"? In other words, lowest weight isn't necessarily least effort if it affects your rest to the point that you're physically going downhill. Stoves certainly can have an "x-factor" that makes you far more effective in the mountains than a mere weight calculation would indicate.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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11/12/2012 4:14 PM
 

evanhill wrote
 

In other words, lowest weight isn't necessarily least effort if it affects your rest to the point that you're physically going downhill.

That's what I'm getting at.  There's a metabolic and psychological cost to going all day in crap weather, even with good gear.  Being able to abate that would be excellent.  There have also been more than a few occasions (usually in spring) where I've been soaked from river crossings and isothermic snow, and dealt with the lovely choice of which spruce to put a fire under in the rain.

 
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11/12/2012 5:47 PM
 

Right. My criterea is effort, efficiency, reliability. We only reduce weight becasue of the effort. Face it, if you could carry a wall tent and giant stove and big bed and not expend any more effort, most folks probably would. Sometimes though , if we reduce too much weight we then loose efficiency. So while I can go out in the woods with 5 lbs total weight, I may actually use more effort than if I had 15lbs. This is even true is stove size (since we are talking stoves). A small stove often requires much more work acquiring suitable burning materials. I don't factor in stocking while sitting in a tent much, since what else am I going to do, but I do factor in effort of acquiring wood. Reliability of course is a moving target and can change based on season. For instance what is required for reliable staking in the winter is different than the summer, and the same with water purification. A good example was this past weekend, I usually only carry water, but since I knew it was supposed to be very cold, I carried gatorade to have a lower freezing point. It did turn slushy at times, but it was drinkable (I was out for the day only). If I was backcountry camping, my water purification would have been more the melting snow variety,

 


http://www.seekoutside.com | sig added by EH... go check out Kevin's stuff!
 
New Post
12/15/2012 3:47 PM
 

evanhill wrote

  • Ladder up to 4" diameter saw logs (maybe split in half depending on moisture content) once you have a good bed of coals. That will create a longer burning fire that still puts out good BTUs.
  • Maybe more ventilation. You can tell on that one by playing with the door while you burn. If you get better draw with the door open than you do closed, then you need more ventilation. With the right amount of ventilation in the right spot, the fire actually cranks up rather than down when you close the door because it creates a forced bellows effect through the coal bed.
  • This is the biggest one - The megamids let a *lot* of cold air in underneath the edges. You've got to be able to seal your space. I had mesh sewn onto the bottom perimeter of my mid when I had it, and the only time I was able to use a stove to get it really warm in there was when I had the entire perimeter pinned down with snow on the mesh sod skirt. If I were you, I'd sew enough of a sod skirt onto the perimeter of that mid to make for a completely enclosed space.

 

Just want to follow up and say that the above was good advice.  With some more practice I've been able to consistently warm the 'mid up very nicely indeed.  The ability to dry socks in the middle of a nuking blizzard is awesome.

My main issue stemed from the fast and dirty techniques I've used building open fires for warming on trips in the last 3-4 years (in MT and AK this has been frequent).  Usually these have been with shaking cold hands and wet fuel, and I've compensated by just building a big fire to generate enough heat to combust wet stuff.  With the little stove this doesn't work; the finite space demands quality fuel.  Once I started paying more attention to wood selection and splitting most of it, I was golden.  You can dry fual qute effectively by stacking it around the stove as well.

 
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3/19/2013 5:22 PM
 

What's the proper thickness and hardness of the shim stock for the pipe?  The .004 in hardened is far cheaper. The above poster suggeted the annealed but it's about twice the cost.  Having no experience with either, what's the 411 on the material pro n con.

 

 
New Post
3/19/2013 7:24 PM
 

 Lothar,

 

I have always used .004 in stainless and .005 in titanium. Not that you need thicker material for a ti pipe, I have just never seen it available in .004.

I have always used the 301/302/304 Full Temper from McMaster Carr whan using ss.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#stainless-steel-shim-stock/=lyaizi

9784K45

I also sell .005 Titanium if you are interested. It is 300 mm wide (11 13/16") and runs $15/foot. That also includes stainless steel cable pipe rings, one per foot of pipe material.

 

Best'

 

Ed

 
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3/19/2013 7:33 PM
 

thanks for chiming in Ed. Guys, I asked Ed to comment because he and his dad are the guys who started the ultralight backpacking stove movement as nearly as I can tell. Figured going to the source was a good call.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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3/19/2013 11:15 PM
 

Thanks guys.  I'm working on making one at home.  Any other advice for cutting clean circles?  A dremmel will get it done but there must be a better way because the branded stoves have prefect circles.  I'm not going to buy a $100 tool but if there's a better way I'm all ears.

Ed what's the weight delta between a foot of steel to a foot of titanium?  What do you save in a 7 foot pipe for instance? 

LOTHP

 
New Post
3/19/2013 11:35 PM
 

 I cut the door openings with a CNC Plasma cutter, but in prototypes have used aviation snips and a Dremel tools.

As far as pipe weights go, titanium is 40% lighter than stainless. If I remember correctly a 7' ti pipe weighs 10.5 oz while a stainless weighs about 16.

You get better heat transfer with the titanium as well.

 
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