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3/30/2017 7:26 PM
 

Thoughts?  Have been thinking about this a good bit lately as I go back and forth between a 1911 and a Glock.  The Glock 34 vs 1911 size weight comparison thread prompted me to post  What is the right number of rounds for a civilian CCWer with the current threat of active shooters?   I always carry one spare mag with the Glock and at least two with 1911 series when I head out.

 
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3/31/2017 12:55 PM
 
You don't get the fight you want.

You get the fight you get.

Like many here, I used to instruct various martial skills, and every now and then still do (mostly as a favor to a friend who runs a school and sometimes has scheduling conflicts between mil/civ classes). One thing I always made a point of mentioning is that fights in general are like a gift from a total stranger. You unwrap it and then have to deal with what you were handed, whether it favors you or not.

It is pretty hard to say you need X number of rounds as a CCW carrier. Unless you are issued a crystal ball, one just does not know what you may walk into, or be present for, when things turn ugly.

Generally speaking cliches like "fight your way to your rifle" are really not particularly realistic. Most of the time you end up dealing with the problem with what you have on you, even if it is just a J Frame in the pocket. When asked about what I think is a minimum a person should carry, I usually tell folks " What is the absolute minimum cartridge/firearm that you are willing to get into a gunfight with, against one or maybe multiple adversaries?".

With all that out of the way, I do pretty close to the same as you. When I am carrying a 1911, I usually have a couple spare mags. When I have a G17/19, I am comfortable with one spare mag. Pretty much any day I am awake and wearing pants, I will have my old 442 BUG in my front left pants pocket. It is the "always" gun, and the one I carry when I am feeling super lazy and don't want to carry a gun.

When traveling, especially to more urban areas, I usually up my game.

 
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3/31/2017 3:00 PM
 

Mackay...sounds like sage advice.  Personally, I carry 2 x 8 rd mags for my 1911...and then a 10 rd nearby in my truck or sometimes on my person.  I feel comfortable with that.  But...that's also because I feel confident in my abilities to hit an assailant right in the ol' "Paula Abdula"...if I gotta!  All kidding aside, I do feel pretty confident with that number of rounds/spare mags in most situations, having spent some time over the years in bad places.

Although I do have a G19...that is the house gun for the wife & daughter.  If I did go back to carrying it, I would likely be good with one spare mag....most all of mine are set-up with the +2 extender.


Hill People Gear Coureurs des Bois (Brand Ambassador). Victoria faveat paratam. De Oppresso Liber.
 
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3/31/2017 6:59 PM
 
So I am by no means someone you should take advice from regarding carrying, but I'll share what I've personally come to. I think having *a* reload is more important than quantity most of the time, which is why there is always two magazines on my AR even if I don't think I'll need 60 rounds. I also think carrying something you are confident in and have extensive training on is important. If carrying a G19 gives you more confidence than a 5-shot snub or P938, carry the 19. At the same time, if you're confident in that 938, carry that (especially if due to the size you carry the smaller more consistently, like MS's 422 BUG). I strive to become confident and trained in revolvers, because I love them. I'm not yet (I've only in the last 6 mo started getting training on semi pistols), so I don't.

Personally, I don't like to make a choice based on extreme hypothetical situations - "what if I'm in the mall and a group of Germans goes Die Hard and I need to save everyone and they have MP5s? A snubby would be awful! I better choose the G17 with 3-4 30 round spare mags... Or maybe I should put that 300 pistol in my Umlindi, with my PC and chest rig." Do self defense situations happen? Yes. Most of the scenarios (what if a biker gang attacks me? What if I go down this alley and three thugs try and mug me?) should be dealt with two things before it comes to drawing, let alone shooting: situational awareness and deescalation. So while I to an extent agree with, as a civilian ... Why am I going into area X? Am I dressed appropriately? What can I do to make myself look like a less attractive target? Are things going sideways? Do I have at least one exit route? Does this gas station look sketch, maybe I should go to next one? Etc...

Honestly, I am no longer anything other than an armed citizen, and my first priority is to get my family out of Danger, not to get into a gun fight with Crypts because I dissed someone. And honestly, if I think I'm headed into an area I'll need a firearm ... I won't go there, and the firearm I'd want is my AR. A professional private bodyguard once told me that being a bodyguard is basically the art of being a pussy. And I suppose to a large extent, that is how I view my current role, even to the point where I've thought "should I flip off that driver? My two year old son is in the car, and what if Dude decides to pull a Glock over the Bird?"

Anyways, like I said, these are just my personal thoughts I've come to, and not at all a recommendation for anyone else.

- J
 
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4/1/2017 6:48 AM
 
The outcome of any encounter you are likely to be involved in WILL NOT likely hinge on your lack of ammo .... if you do in fact carry what you mentioned in your original post.
 
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4/1/2017 5:56 PM
 
I disagree, only a belt-fed in overwatch will suffice.  Scratch that, gotta have at LEAST a 60mm mortar crew on standy.











I'm carrying a Khar P9 with a reload most likely these days.  Just sayin...
 
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4/1/2017 6:58 PM
 
TAK - I'll see your 60mm overwatch and raise you an Abrams. If the 120s seem overkill, they still got that 50... :D
 
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4/4/2017 10:14 AM
 
Having more cartridges in the weapon gives me more options, before a reload becomes necessary. Five is enough, until it is not. Seven is enough, until it is not. Fifteen is enough, until it is not.

I do want to have at least one full reload available, and am starting to prefer multiple reloads.

Due to an experience with finding a broken mainspring in a duty revolver in the Eighties, second weapons, too, are a part of my comfort equation. I may not carry a second handgun when walking the dog in the neighborhood, but a trip into the nearby big city is likely to mean I am carrying 2+ weapons. This might mean two revolvers, or two Glocks, or a mix.

My usual default normal, in urbanized areas, is a G19. Until very recently, it could have been either a Glock or 1911, but my formerly-stronger hand is not aging well, and among other issues, maintaining a proper 1911 firing grip, with my thumb on the safety lever, becomes problematic within a few minutes.

I reserve the right to edit/add after I have had some sleep.



 
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4/5/2017 12:32 PM
 
I'm in CA so I'm stuck with 10 rounders. 10 + 1 in the CZ P01, and a 10 rounder ranger banded to my belt for quick deployment
 
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4/8/2017 5:23 AM
 
Well, about the time I think I am totally content with Glock 19 pistols, for daily carry, I have a bad day, largely due to fatigue, and cannot hit as accurately as I would like. Yesterday was one of those days. Sometimes, the quirky Glock trigger just defeats me, and I feel like reverting to revolvers and the 1911 for daily carry. Accuracy trumps ammo capacity.
 
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4/8/2017 8:55 AM
 
You should "revert to the revolver" on the range to reprocess how to pull through a trigger cleanly. (You're humping the trigger)  Then dry fire the Glock a bunch.  Have you weighed the Glock's trigger?  A Zev race connector with a NY1 trigger spring will give you a 5.5-6#  trigger that feels a lot like a good revolver.
 
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4/8/2017 9:04 AM
 
TAK makes a good point. You can get a "decent" trigger on a Glock if you ditch the OEM junk and go aftermarket. Or just sell it and buy any number of poly pistols that actually come with triggers that are much better.

And two words for ya - dry fire. Two more words for you - wall drill. 5 minutes a day and you will be back in the game. But no matter how many times I tell shooters that, almost no one will do it. Horse/water.
 
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4/8/2017 9:35 AM
 

Totally agree.  In pretty much every pistol course I've been in, we spent almost as much time dry firing as we did shooting live.  Love the wall drill using a #2 pencil, as well.  When training with Jerry Barnhart years ago, he stressed the importance of it...and he didn't get to be known as "The Burner" for nothing.  I recently picked up a deck of Dry Fire Training Cards and I need to start working through that deck.


Hill People Gear Coureurs des Bois (Brand Ambassador). Victoria faveat paratam. De Oppresso Liber.
 
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4/8/2017 2:49 PM
 
Those cards look fun Ken. I'm about to be in a bit of a dry spell where I'll be unable to access the range for a while, and those might come in handy.

And while I don't own a Glock, the guy that I take lessons from is a fan of just polishing the Glock trigger group to get a better trigger. The way he explained it reminded me of how Geisslle explained ALG Triggers. Don't know if y'all have experience with that?

But in relation to what Rex said - accuracy beats quantity, but it isn't an "either or" situation. Just like shot placement beats caliber size, but that doesn't mean we should all be carrying 22LRs. If you feel the need to carry a 15 round capacity handgun, don't "settle" for a lower capacity handgun for better accuracy. Buy an FN. ;)

- J
 
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4/11/2017 5:02 PM
 
Thanks for the advice regarding the Glock trigger, but I cannot change anything in the trigger linkage, in any firearm I will carry on (police) duty, or in public during personal time. The only exception is recreational firearms that I will not use for a law enforcement purpose. Of course, defense of myself or others is seen as a law enforcement purpose, at least within the borders of the State of Texas. Presumably, I can swap OEM parts that do not affect the engagement surfaces, so one of my G19 pistols will probably soon be getting a non-serrated trigger, to eliminate that one variable.

I have dry-fired much, in the past few days. I do feel better now. I may get a sergeant's OK to go to the PD range, tonight, or some time this week, for live-fire confirmation. (Our range is open 24 hours a day, five days a week, and we can practice the qual course, on duty, if staffing levels allow.)
 
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4/15/2017 11:25 AM
 

I have enoyed the responses.  Starting to lean more back to hi-cap Glocks in my carry rotation.

No sure what my most likely threat would be in my area, but it does seem like terrorism is going to continue to increase and one or more well training active shooter terrorists encountered at the mall or elsewhere in the city might be the most dangerous threat.    

 
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5/1/2017 1:20 AM
 

The correct answer is 15+1.  The Glock 19.   :-D

Seriously though.  Something along those lines.

And yes, upgrade the trigger.  I'm a fan of the IGFS triggers.  They drop right in, no modding, and don't get rid of any of the factory internal safeties  -  most of the aftermarket triggers get rid of at least one of them.

 
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12/9/2017 8:49 AM
 
My circumstances may be a bit different, as I live in a big city. While exploring the urban wilderness my usual CCW is a small auto or revolver. My priorities are reliability, concealment, and how well I can hit with it at close range. Concealment is extremely important in big cities because, aside from some people troubled at the sight of a gun, there are criminals and crazies who will try to grab a gun they detect. A 1911, G19 or XDm may be tops, but a G42 or J-frame might be a better choice.

Expect trouble to be close, less than 10 feet, and probably less than 6 feet away when it happens. One of my friends in a defensive shooting instructor. When he was jumped at a gas station/convenience store, he only got off one shot in the struggle, but it worked to save him. FYI, it was a contact shot due to the attacker being tight against him.

Big cities are no different than mountains or jungles, except that our lions, tigers, and bears are less pretty. 🙂
 
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12/9/2017 12:45 PM
 

For "deep cover" urban carry as you allude to, I'd suggest a Ruger LCR in 9mm in a Desantis pocket holster, worn support-hand side pocket as a BUG, with a Glock 43 worn IWB strong side.  Carry a spare G43 mag on each hip.  If you had to reload the LCR, when you kicked the moon clip out of the cylinder you could reload from the strong side mag. That would give you 25-6 rds of 9mm with +2's on the extra mags Very discrete set up.

 
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