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12/4/2017 12:52 PM
 
I really need to re-read this thread to see how my thinking has changed, and what I have said before. At this point my one pistol has changed. For years I carried a Lightweight Railed 1911, but have found that I have to work harder to shoot it to the levels I find acceptable. It is still my benchmark for the best carry gun I have found, which is why I stuck with it for so long. I got a Sig Legion SAO at the beginning of last year, and that is really where I discovered that I had to work harder with the 1911. I switched back to a 1911 when I was doing a lot of shooting/training and I could run it as well as anything else, and better than some. I don't have to time for the training/practice these days, and what I found was that everything was easier with the Sig, except carry. Unfortunately the Sig is almost half a pound (6oz) heavier than the 1911 empty. That had me looking for another option.

I have shot a few 40s over the years and discounted them due to the recoil. I just didn't like them. When Evan got his 40 I was very skeptical and it took me several shooting sessions with it to come around. The M&P 5" 2.0 in 40 is a very soft shooting 40. Its more like a 9mm+p then it is what I think of as 40. When you pair it was the 200gr hardcast you have a good woods gun that is not terrible recoil wise, and with the 180gr loads it has less recoil than my 1911. Couple that with a 15rd capacity, and you have a pretty dang nice do everything package. Given my big hands I sure wish they hadn't ditched the beavertail, but I like the stippling a lot. I picked up one and only time will tell, but right now it is my do everything handgun, including for bear. Although admittedly if I am worried about a big bear then I will be carrying my 45/70.

The rifle is harder. I still haven't found the one. All three bolt, semi, and lever have pluses and minuses. The lever is a more compact package, quicker shooting, but gives up range, and is the hardest to reload. The bolt is middle of the road in bulk, slower to shoot, but has better range. Both of these two are 50 state legal and non-threatening looking, and I just like lever guns better than bolt guns.

I have a Socom in a walnut stock (it is about the same weight as the oem one), which is a heck of a nice gun. It has a nice classic look, but due to the weight and balance I find that I only really like to carry it with a t1 on it. It seems a bit silly to carry a 308 with just a red dot to me. That kind of defeats the purpose of the caliber. I kind of want to try a traditionally mounted scope, but I am not sure I want to spend the money for just a test. Finally, I am just not super excited about the safety, it is an awkward motion and unlike any of my other guns, which are all thumb safetys so there is no commonality of training.

I have been waiting patiently for someone to make the right 308 AR, as in a carbine and not a precision rifle, and the still haven't. The DPMS is really the only one that got me real intrigued, but it is a DPMS. I really like the DD in hand, and if I didn't know what it is weighted I would get one, but that fact it is roughly the same weight as my Socom gives me pause, but subjectively it feels lighter than guns that are a pound lighter. I got excited by the Revolution 308, and was set to buy one, but thankfully got to handle one in person. It is very poorly balanced, and I hate the overized rail. All that means I finally decided to build one. It is a mixture of V7, SLR, and 2nd amendment parts and on paper is somewhere around 6.7 lbs. I have to get hands on and run it for awhile, but I have long thought that the right AR308 would be hard to beat as the one. They AR simply has a lot going for it as a field gun.

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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12/4/2017 5:14 PM
 

What about the POF Revolution, Scot?  Awful light, and 308.  Not scary accurate, but pretty good as far as carbines go...at least that's how it's getting reviewed.  


Hill People Gear Coureurs des Bois (Brand Ambassador). Victoria faveat paratam. De Oppresso Liber.
 
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12/4/2017 5:27 PM
 

Plus, just to add.....we all have so many choices nowadays to go with....almost too many.  It’s a good thing to be able to continue searching for that Holy Grail gun.  I sometimes find myself thinking....does that firearm even exist, or will it ever exist?  Kinda brings up something I remember from my past SOF life...”Perfect is the enemy of good enough,”

Meaning, we can keep trying to find perfection when trying to choose a certain thing, but we end up just constantly searching for it instead of being happy with what we have.  Sure, we run the risk of becoming adverse to any new technology or true improvement, but as long as there is balance, we can still move forward with something new when it’s truly warranted.  I guess i’ve gone a bit retro, looking more toward what worked well before, instead of trying the next big thing.  


Hill People Gear Coureurs des Bois (Brand Ambassador). Victoria faveat paratam. De Oppresso Liber.
 
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12/4/2017 5:33 PM
 
scothill wrote:
I got excited by the Revolution 308, and was set to buy one, but thankfully got to handle one in person. It is very poorly balanced, and I hate the overized rail. .

 

On paper there is a lot to interest me on the Revolution, and the reviews up to then were all positive.  I like a lot of the design choices they made especially for a 308 AR, and the idea of a short action intrigues me.  The weight was also close to what I was willing to rock.  I almost bought one sight unseen based on the reviewes, because POF dealers are hard to find, but luckily I held out until I was able to handle one in my travels. The same dealer had a few other options (all of which I had handled before) including the DD. I like the DD best out of what they had so compared the POF to the DD.  If you told me that the POF weighted 8.2lbs and the DD 7.2lbs based on the handling I would have believed you.  The POF feels about like shouldering a 2x4, it doesn't feel good or lively in the hands.  It doesn't balance well, point naturally for me, and it feels heavier then it is.  My understanding is that they have the rail dovetail on to the upper receiver to add rigidity to both, but the result is a bulky un-ergonomic rail in my opinion.  I was pretty dang disappointed because I was convienced that it was what I had been looking for, but once again it goes to show that what is on paper doesn't address what something is actually like in real life, it is just specs on a page. 

The AR I am putting together should be .5-.75lbs lighter than the POF and 1.5-1.75lbs ligther than the DD, have a handguard half the size of the POF and about the size of the DD, and hopefully will balance out well.  Only time will tell on that.  If the DD was available in MLok I would have been very tempted to just get one.  I spent time talking to folks at DD about the 308, including about rebarreling or turning one of their barrels down, which are very heavy in contour.  Rebarreing at this point isn't an option, and I am always leary of turning down a barrel.  I was ultimately convinced to try another route by a couple of friends.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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12/5/2017 12:44 PM
 

I almost bought a used POF 308 a couple years ago.  MOA accurate with GMM off of a bull bag.  With a harris bipod it would inconsistently sling bullets into a 3moa vertical group.  It balanced like crap as described.

A LOT of these problems would be solved if GWACS/Cav Arms would do a poly 308 lower.  The 224 Valkyrie is going to turn a standard AR into what should have been all along.

 
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