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2/9/2012 6:12 PM
 

This is something that has come up a few times recently on various forums and I want to address it directly here. The bottom line is that we encourage *respectful* discussion of competitive products. Every product is a collection of design compromises where trade offs were deliberately made in one direction or another. The trade offs that we choose to make on our products may not be the trade offs that are most important to you as an individual. If there is a competitive product that is closer to what you are looking for, we're just as happy that you hear about it here as anywhere else.

Of course, we want the opportunity to explain why we think our product is preferable, but we fully recognize that that's according to our criteria and maybe not yours. We're thinking individuals, and we want our customers to be as well. We appreciate brand loyalty, but we encourage you not to buy something just because we happen to make it. Think through whether it is the right gear choice for you, discuss it here, talk about competing choices here, and draw your own conclusions.

We only ask that you keep it polite. Don't trash talk others' products, don't trash talk our products. Keep conversations of this type focused on fact based pro and con analysis and everybody will come out ahead. At the end of the day, the time we spend in the backcountry is far more important than the gear we use to get out there. We look forward to seeing you out there, no matter what gear you're using.
 


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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2/9/2012 7:14 PM
 

Exactly. I might be hanging out here more often as I am sure I will be band from a certain message board soon....

 
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2/9/2012 7:20 PM
 

Yep I am banned for a week, I guess this will be my new home.

 
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2/9/2012 7:35 PM
 

Our standards for discourse and civility are high, but they don't include blatant censorship of the lowest type. Welcome to free America, Big W.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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2/9/2012 7:41 PM
 

Also be aware if you post something as fact be able to back up your "fact."


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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2/10/2012 12:10 AM
 

Evan,

Thank you for your reasoned, and reasonable, request regarding the conduct of folks who particpate here.  Thank you, also, for clearly expressing the view of HPG regarding design elements, capabilities, tradeoffs, feedback, and thoughtful, polite conversation.  And, I especially appreciate your reminder that the goal is getting out, not the gear.

Scot,

Thank you for addressing the charge to "bring your facts/observations to the table" when participating here.  Seems to me that facts and observations help folks make more informed decisions.  I appreciate that HPG supports informed decisions over any other approach.  That approach creates stronger folks, and builds stronger communities.  I think it is also good business.

Big W,

Thanks for speaking up on the other thread that brought this conversation to the forefront.  I attempted to PM you there, to say "Well done", but the PM function would not let me address a PM to you.  Now I understand why that happened. 

I appreciate that participants here are expected to have their ducks in a row(facts), and to be civil in the their conversation.  Further, I appreciate that the hosts/mods here take the approach that all civil conversation improves our situation, even if, and maybe especially if, participants hold differing perspectives on a topic.  Interesting to see the admonishment else where that questioning a moderator's decision in public results in a scolding, and, what I took as, a threat, or, in Big W's case, a spanking.  Am I missing something, or is that thought police in action?  Seems to me, thought police actions degrade the boards...

I can only assume that having a forum to discuss ones products and their uses is good business.  And that forums, like any other element of a busienss, are reflected in the pricing.  And, what a gold mine of field use reports, successes, failures, opportunities to walk your talk about caring for customers, and on and on.  For me, the conversations here provide useful info that helps me use all my gear in more effective and efficient ways.  For me, that's the point of participating. 

All told a great day.  Seeing the best and worst of the internet human condition.  Ain't it grand?

Many thanks, all, and best regards.

112Papa

 

 
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2/10/2012 7:55 AM
 

 Evan,

 Thanks for posting this and reaffirming that I hadn't lost my damn mind... I had what I though was polite and honest discourse over there, but apparently there is history and I wandered into it. Big w stood.demonstrated the same common sense, and received the same fate as I.  I won't lose any sleep over it, but I would be lying if I said this wont influence how I vote with wallet...

 

 
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2/10/2012 10:22 AM
 

You didn't walk into history over there so much as a certain way of doing things. You will find a generally high caliber group of people there who, out of politeness, will never post anything critical of Kifaru gear. I've been in that group during my entire tenure there (well, the high caliber part is up to you to judge). It is easy to misconstrue that silence as blanket approval of the whole Kifaru line. That is simply not the truth on the part of most of the experienced folks there. That's why I felt the need to make our expectations on this forum regarding our own gear clear with this thread. You'll also find a fanboy contingent there who have their self image tied up in support of the Kifaru brand, which leads to all sorts of strange outcomes. Please don't get that way with our stuff. If you ever find yourself putting our gear on some kind of pedestal beyond well reasoned criticism, give yourself a good slap. That's what we'd do if we were standing there.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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2/10/2012 2:23 PM
 

Evan, I think yor post is spot on. Intelligent discourse serves to improve products, while intense brand loyalty probably does not, or at least not so much. Our goal is to make products that provide good long term value that people enjoyed using.


http://www.seekoutside.com | sig added by EH... go check out Kevin's stuff!
 
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2/10/2012 2:48 PM
 

This will become a new hangout for me as well.

 

I will write a post of various "shelter failures" I have had as soon as I get time.

BTW, I love the Mountain Serape. Showed up yesterday and it will be even more useful than I thought.

 


http://www.edtsbackcountry.com/ | sig added by EH. go check out Ed's stuff!
 
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2/10/2012 3:05 PM
 

Welcome guys, glad to have you here.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
New Post
2/10/2012 3:39 PM
 

Wow, Big W, they banned you for a week?  Geez

Well, I'll definitely be frequenting this site a bit more.  Glad we still have a place to get insight from the Hill bros, et. al.  I see a lot of familiar names here, so I'll guess the people of a high caliber :)

 
New Post
2/10/2012 9:21 PM
 
Dang Evan! I thought if I used HPG gear I was bombproof or at least bulletproof! Don't start talking crazy and get me thinkng the gear doesn't make the man. ;) 9
 
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2/16/2012 10:02 AM
 

CCH wrote
Dang Evan! I thought if I used HPG gear I was bombproof or at least bulletproof! Don't start talking crazy and get me thinkng the gear doesn't make the man. ;)9

Don't start CCH thinking crazy....now THAT's funny.  ;)

I think I just may hang out here a bit as well...

 
New Post
4/9/2012 2:05 PM
 

evanhill wrote
 

This is something that has come up a few times recently on various forums and I want to address it directly here. The bottom line is that we encourage *respectful* discussion of competitive products. Every product is a collection of design compromises where trade offs were deliberately made in one direction or another. The trade offs that we choose to make on our products may not be the trade offs that are most important to you as an individual. If there is a competitive product that is closer to what you are looking for, we're just as happy that you hear about it here as anywhere else.

Of course, we want the opportunity to explain why we think our product is preferable, but we fully recognize that that's according to our criteria and maybe not yours. We're thinking individuals, and we want our customers to be as well. We appreciate brand loyalty, but we encourage you not to buy something just because we happen to make it. Think through whether it is the right gear choice for you, discuss it here, talk about competing choices here, and draw your own conclusions.

We only ask that you keep it polite. Don't trash talk others' products, don't trash talk our products. Keep conversations of this type focused on fact based pro and con analysis and everybody will come out ahead. At the end of the day, the time we spend in the backcountry is far more important than the gear we use to get out there. We look forward to seeing you out there, no matter what gear you're using.
 

The more I read about the integrity behind the HPG brand, the more impressed I am. Please dont change, the industry needs more guys like you two.


forumPoster is not the actual poster. If you are the actual poster, please make another quick post claiming this post. Sorry, too much moderator overhead to change the attribution on this post.
 
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7/13/2013 10:04 AM
 

It's Saturday morning, it's frickin beautiful out here in NC, and I'm still buzzing from my coffee. That said, I've noticed a huge polarization in the quality of not only product but customer service accross a broad spectrum of industries, the manufacturers, and their retailers. Despite the Hill Bros working day jobs (correct? maybe I'm wrong) HPG manages to treat me politly, promptly, not make me feel like I'm bothering them, and they even throw in a "thanks". In total contrast this week I emailed a "police gear" store to try and remedy a shipping error and was told they won't because "USPS is a sererate entity" and told me to go down to the post office and work it out myself. Although mutual  appriciation shouldn't have to be something to sing praise about it's become nearly extinct and the lame companies are only highlighting the guys like HPG that much more. So thanks again for the awesome gear and the conjones to back it up. I get a lot of curious questions and compliments on the trails when people see my HPG stuff.

 
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1/15/2014 9:08 AM
 

 I just wanted to post here and say The Hill's are stand up people. I purchased a Ute and it was not quite right for my needs, they took it back without questions or hassle. The quality of the pack was top notch, and if I was a lighter packing guy, than it would have been perfect. As soon as they make a kitchen sink compression panel I'll jump back in with both feet. Ha!

anyway, thanks and when that external is available I'll buy the first.

also thanks for a no drama forum, just honest open discussion.

 
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11/10/2015 6:10 AM
 
I won't lose any sleep over it, but I would be lying if I said this wont influence how I vote with wallet...
 
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Edward Curtis Canyon De Chelly
When humans first set foot in a new continent, they came in small groups under their own power, bringing only the gear they needed. Most simply called themselves The People. Over time, those who chose the rougher freer life of the up country came to think of themselves as the Hill People.
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