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4/22/2016 11:16 AM
 

We really hadn’t intended to write this thread until Evan had more of a chance to ring the rifle out.  However, Evan has a camera and is excited about his new rifle, and folks are getting all stirred up, so...  Evan will be posting more pictures, and both an initial shooting review and first field trip report, but asked me to get the ball rolling with the technical aspects of the rifle.

A couple of years ago at Shot, Eric Graves (SSD) suggested to us, that we do a HPG Rifle as part of our back country living system. Evan and I were both intrigued, and at the time, Evan’s only hunting rifle was his Mauser Scout, which is optic limited.  With that in mind we decided to kill two birds with one stone, build a proof of concept rifle and get Evan a more capable rifle.  However, as I am the gun guy I took the lead on the project.  A friend of ours, Robert Nelson, had recently hung out his gunsmith shingle, and we knew from experience that he did good work, so we selected him to be our builder.  I spent time at that Shot looking at parts, talking to makers, and in general seeing what was out there.  I also got feedback from a variety of friends with different backgrounds and experience levels to gauge what they were interested in and things they liked and disliked on a rifle.  The package pretty quickly came together as it was largely an evolution and melding of my Custom Remington, Evan’s Mauser, and my modified RGS. 

What we set out to build was an 80-90% solution just like our Ute.  We wanted a rifle that would accomplish all tasks well, but maybe not perfectly.  The reality is that very few people carry two rifles in the backcountry, and not everyone can afford a quiver of rifles to select from for a given task.  Reliability, capability, weight, and cost drove most of the decisions from there.  I mention cost because our goal was to build a rifle that folks could afford just like our gear. A custom rifle isn’t going to be cost competitive with mass produced rifles, but on the other hand we didn’t want to make something that your average person couldn’t save up for and purchase if they saw the benefit in what we were doing. 

Our basic list of requirements/goals was as follows:

·         Capable of taking big game humanely, but in a commonly available caliber

·         6.5lbs bare (unloaded, no optic, no light, no sling)

·         Compact to make it easier to work in tight spaces, and for transportation

·         Irons

·         Ability to mount a variety of optics from an RDS to a high magnification precision scope

·         Weather resistant

·         1 MOA accuracy for the first 3rds and then 2 MOA there after

·         DBM

·         Ability to mount a light

·         At a price your common person could afford

·         Suppressor compatible and all that goes along with that

The first decision was caliber, and it was also perhaps the easiest.  We chose 308, because there is a plethora of ammunition available from milsurp to match ammunition, to hunting, to defensive, and in bullet weights from small to heavy.  It is also a proven big game caliber in the United States and abroad. Again maybe not the best choice for something really big or way out there, but good enough if you do your part. 

Next was semi vs bolt, which were really the only two choices as 308s in lever action configuration are lacking for a variety of reasons.  At the time an 8lb rifle was a light semi, and our target weight was 6.5lbs bare (unloaded, no sling, optic, or light).  Given that the bolt action was a no brainer, but what action style?

Millions of words have been written about push feed vs controlled feed, and it seems to be a very partisan subject. Suffice to say we have both and both have pluses and minuses.  For this build we choose to go with the Remington action for a variety of reasons.  First it is very easy to true one and get the accuracy we wanted. Second it is generally a lighter weight action than the Mauser style, and thus we were more likely to hit or weight goal.  Next, and this one surprised me, of those polled all but one preferred it to the Mauser style, and the one didn’t have a strong feeling for the Mauser.  There is also a huge after market for the Remington so it gave us a lot of flexibility in choosing parts. If you go with a Mauser you are very limited.  Finally was price and availability, the Remington action is simply less expensive and easy to get, which can’t be said for new production Mauser style actions.  In the interest of reliability, Robert did recommend and install a Sako style extractor.

The other thing we liked about the Remington was the ability to buy a bare action with a 40x trigger.  After some discussion we chose to go with the 40x, which was set at a crisp 4-5lbs.  Robert felt that the issues related to the Remington Trigger and ADs was due to folks setting them to light.  As this was intended as a field rifle and would be used with gloves, under adverse weather conditions, and when tired we had no hesitation on weight of pull, we just went with what most consider a standard duty weight.  Having rifles with heavier triggers and triggers in that range we know that accuracy doesn’t suffer if you have good technique, provided the trigger is crisp.

Robert guided the decision on barrel supplier, which was PacNor.  He had experience with them, and was happy with their quality, customer service, turnaround time, and also they were competitively priced.  Robert and I got a the phone with one of the Smiths at PacNor and I spent awhile talking to him about our goals, the concept of the project, and what I wanted in capability, while Robert answered the tech questions.  Between the three of us, we decided on a 16” #3 Contour 5-Flute stainless barrel.  Going with a #3 would give us the stiffness for accuracy and running a suppressor that we wanted, but by fluting it we also saved weight.  At 16” we are getting a reduced length overall and in talking with folks who have actual field experience we weren’t giving up enough out to intermediate distance to matter.  As the fluting was done by PacNor as part of the process of construction it wouldn’t introduce issues that fluting after the fact can.  I did some research and got the thread pitch and depth from a variety of Suppressor Companies, and had PacNor thread the barrel too.  We chose stainless for weather resistance. 

Robert also discovered the correct bottom metal which is from Seekins Precision. We knew we wanted to go with an AICS style mag as it was quickly becoming a standard, and a variety of magazines options were available (even more now).  A couple of other bottom metals struck my fancy at Shot, but as soon as I took a look at the Seekins it was a done deal. The Seekins magazine release uses the exact same motion/manual of arms as an AR, which is very familiar to lots of folks. The Seekins was also lower profile than a lot of other options saving weight and bulk.  I also like that the magazine release is somewhat protected. I have carried a bolt gun with a paddle style release for a long time and only once did I accidently eject the magazine, by being stupid, but it is an issue others have experienced. 

The final major decision was stock.  I really wanted to include a folding capability, and like the stocks from Manners, but after talking to him I realized that there was no way to hit the weight goal and use a folder or a Manners stock either.   Things might have changed in the last couple of years, but at that point, McMillian was really the answer given the wide variety of stocks and the ability to go with a lightweight fill.  I have a HTG on my RGS, actually the 1st McMillian stock made for the RGS, and both Evan and I find it to be a very ergonomic stock.  We discussed a different McMillian model in the interest of weight, but after talking with the guy at McMillian I worked with on the RGS project we decided that the nominal weight difference wasn’t worth the trade off, and plus my mock-up looked better with the HTG.  The HTG is simply one of my favorite if not my favorite bolt action stocks.  It has a slight check rise which helps with optics, and feels great in the pistol grip so keeping the hand nice and relaxed is easy.  The other thing we like about the HTG is the length and shape of the fore-end. It is easy to grab while driving the gun quickly, the length allows you to use a variety of non-standard positions and rests without touching the barrel, and finally it provides a very nice balance.  McMillian will also inset swivel cups for you or add sling swivels as requested, so we ordered a HTG Edge in 2 color speckle Olive and FDE with a Pachmyr Decelerator (our favorite pad) and a 12.75” LOP.  Evan usually runs a 12.5” on scout style rifles, but we decided to go a bit longer to account for traditional scope use too.  What McMillian wouldn’t do for us was inlet a channel under the barrel and mount a piece of picatinny rail in it for the light, so Robert had to.  For Evan we went with a piece of polymer rail since he won’t be using it for anything but a light and we were concerned with weight.

The final component was the optic mount. Evan and I both have experience, as does Robert, with a variety of mounting styles, locations, and setups.  What we decided we wanted was a full length rail which would allow you to run just about any optic that you could think of to provide for your uses.  However, we also wanted to keep it as low and close to the action as possible so you didn’t need a cheek piece.  I took measurements from a variety of rifles, and came up with the overall length we wanted.  However, we were a bit stymied on the rear sight. I have a set of two piece bases from XS on my Remington with an integral rear site, which sits up above the rail.  It works well, but you have to use medium height rings to clear the sight.  For a lot of folks that would necessitate a cheek piece, and also can adversely affect the balance of the rifle.  It also increases your offset, and slows down shooting in our experience.  Evan cracked that code, and as we are thinking about putting the rail into production I am going to hold off on the specifics.   

After we got everything sourced it was up to Robert to true the action, complete assembly of all the components, inlet the stock and mount the rail piece, make our rail design a reality, and get it cerakoted.  Unfortunately, life and murphy got in the way big time. 

I will let Evan address the actual rifle, but I have to say Robert hit the mark in all aspects on the build itself and in handling it has the features I speced out.  Only time will tell if my spec hit the mark or not.

Originally, the plan, if the concept rifle proved out, was to either have Robert offer an HPG package, or even have a few made up each year so you could order your own.  We also had planned to bring one or two configurations of the rail to market.  However, as I said life happened and Robert has closed doors and is back in school getting his teaching degree.  I still think that we might bring the rail to the market, but we are undecided on the rifle itself.  At this point, I am pushing at a company regarding a semi, but that is still in concept phase.

There you go the saga and technical details of the HPG Practical Rifle.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
New Post
4/22/2016 11:56 AM
 
The rifle probably took longer than any of us would have liked, between the Remington action shortage during their recall, getting the prototype rail designed and machined out, and working out the small little details that cause inevitable delays. There may be a small tweak or two left to make, but overall I too am very pleased with how the rifle came out. I hope it logs many happy miles and shots in Evan's hands and I appreciate Evan and Scot allowing me the opportunity to turn their concept into a reality.
As Scot has said, life and family needs have necessitated a more stable paycheck than I was able to get running a gunshop in small town, USA. I still maintain my license and will be doing some local work and a few bespoke projects a year. Gun work is a passion, and having a steady, stable paycheck will allow me to provide for my wife and son while still being able to afford to do gunwork.
 
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4/22/2016 7:00 PM
 
That looks awesome! How does it shoot?
 
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4/23/2016 11:02 AM
 
Cool rifle, but I have to ask what the rifle brings to the table that the Ruger GS doesn't?  Body types/stock preferences differ but that McMillan HTG absolutely pummeled me decades ago in SOTIC, of course that was all prone, so maybe it is a good all position stock.  Also, I'll bet my Steyr will be equal (or better) in the accuracy dept.
 
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4/23/2016 2:46 PM
 
Take-a-knee wrote:
Also, I'll bet my Steyr will be equal (or better) in the accuracy dept.

If you look at the accuracy parameters that were intended for the rifle during the build, you'll see that it was 'smithed with specific capabilities in mind.  It wasn't designed as a sniper rifle, but instead a practical rifle.  


Hill People Gear Coureurs des Bois (Brand Ambassador). Victoria faveat paratam. De Oppresso Liber.
 
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4/23/2016 2:47 PM
 
It's funny how much interest my Mauser still generates even after the ruger came out. Now that the GSR exists, I always tell people to forget about the Mauser and just get a GSR. When *this* project was started, the poly stocked GSR wasn't even a glimmer on the horizon. As soon as the poly stock came out, it immediately killed any chance we would produce this. The poly GSR is an 80% solution at very much the right price. Still, I guarantee that people won't listen when I tell them to forget this rifle and get a poly GSR. Just like the fascination with my Mauser continues. Is this nicer than the GSR (and Savage and Steyr)? Of course it is in several ways and I'm extremely happy to have it (which I'll hopefully get time to talk more about later this week). But it wouldn't exist if the poly GSR had been out 2 years ago.

For the record, forget this rifle. Get a poly GSR, put an XS full rail on it, add a light rail to the stock, paint the stock, and call it a day.

We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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4/24/2016 8:46 AM
 
Some initial reactions to this rifle. First, remember that the idea is one general purpose rifle -- the 80% rifle that is easy to grab because it will do just about anything you need reasonably well. As a foil for that, here are the rifles that I have experience with and tend to compare it to:

- 14.5" pinned AR with lightweight barrel and 2-7 VXR I really really like a nice lightweight AR carbine. There aren't a whole lot of downsides to one. The two big drawbacks I can think of are that you can't get one in a game animal caliber that also has range and then the menacing way that it looks. The caliber thing is debatable. Our friend Kelsy over at ODG is a hunting guide in Wyoming and has been using an AR in 300 blackout for 2 or 3 seasons now. Swears by it for just about any kind of critter out to 200 yards. Honestly, there is some real potential there but 300 blk is still kind of a boutique caliber which we like to stay away from.

- custom mexican mauser scout rifle with leupold fixed 2.5x EER Probably the nicest Cooper style scout rifle I've ever seen. Although the Clifton ones I've handled were VERY nice. Drawbacks to the Mauser are that it has a 4+1 capacity and the Extended eye relief scope is functional, but pretty limiting. Also, the safety is an issue I wasn't aware of until I got this new rifle.

- Ruger RGS with 1-5 IER VXR Well understood characteristics, so I won't go into it.

- Steyr SSG with NF 2.5-10 A very nice (but still reasonably handy) precision rifle with EXCELLENT glass on it.

First thing I'll address is optic. In a lot of ways, the optic makes the rifle. What you can't see, you can't hit. And we live in far seeing country. If weight and money were no object, every optic would be that 2.5-10 Nightforce or similar. Stepping down from that, the Leupold 2-7 VXR is very hard to beat as a general purpose scope with good capabilities at the right price. I do prefer traditional scopes from a "heads up display" point of view. The only downside to them is that having some stand off with your optic to prevent it fogging up from your breath is nice but I don't think its critical. That's one thing that is nice about autoloaders like the AR -- you can run a traditional scope without a functional compromise. 

Bolt actions prevent a little bit of a problem with traditional scopes. There are probably some who will argue this point, but in my experience you just can't run a bolt action hard and fast with a traditional scope. If (as in a hunting or precision situation) being able to run hard and fast isn't a requirement, this doesn't matter. For me, an 80% rifle must be able to be run hard and fast at close range on multiple targets. I can't personally do this with a traditional scope and a bolt action. The leupold extended eye relief of the Cooper era required the rear of the scope to be way forward of the action. This was functional, but a lot like looking through a straw. The newer version with the forward bell improved on this, but still was far enough away from the eye to make quickly getting a sight picture a little more demanding. And 2.5x is limiting. I've shot plenty of 1 moa groups at 100 - 200 yards with that optic so I know it's doable, but it's not easy. That is the optic on my mauser. And it pretty much has to be because I need the action completely clear so I can make the most of the limited mag capacity with stripper clips. 

The new Leupold INTERMEDIATE eye relief variable power scopes are a pretty nice compromise. The one on the HPG Practical Rifle (HPGPR) is a 1-4x. As you can see from the picture, the rear of the scope is almost even with the rear of the action. This gives the quick heads up display and wide field of view almost comparable to a traditional scope but also the room I need to run the bolt quickly. I sure wish they made a 2-7, but 1-4 does pretty well. I keep going back and forth over a red dot. It is certainly a heck of a lot more than irons, but it's also a heck of a lot less than a low powered variable for the most part. In the form of an aimpoint T1, it's a nice way to have a pretty good sighting system that weighs a half a pound less than a low powered variable. If you're trying to make weight with an autoloader .308, a t1 might be the answer for you. For my purposes, I really want the capabilities of a low power variable in an 80% rifle. If you want a big game caliber and a low powered variable and want to make a low weight, you pretty much have to go with a bolt action at this stage of the game. Which brings us back to the HPGPR.

One of the capabilities you might want in an 80% rifle is longer range precision shots. This is well handled by the HPGPR. The McMillan HTG stock is the original precision rifle stock and still excels in that role. The HPGPR feels just as competent as the Steyr from a variety of positions. In contrast, the slimmer stock on the mauser is a little demanding in this regard. The full length rail of the HPGPR lets you put any kind of precision scope you want on the thing. And even the 1-4 allows for a certain amount of precision out to a couple hundred yards. So far, it looks like the rifle meets or exceeds the accuracy standard. But you don't make that call with only 100 rounds downrange.

Hunting has a little lower accuracy standard at shorter ranges but adds in a certain portability standard. Of course the HPGPR works well in this regard.

Which brings us to the most challenging set of requirements for an 80% rifle based on a bolt action -- rapid shooting at closer ranges on multiple targets. In this regard, the AR is an apt standard of comparison. In recent years, I had almost completely abandoned the mauser in favor of the AR for general carry because the mauser felt SO limited both from an optic and mag capacity standpoint. With the stripper clips, reloads were way quicker than single loading a traditional bolt action, but nothing like a detachable box magazine. And 4 rounds at a time just isn't much. It turns out that 10 round magazines feel just fine to me on the mag capacity side. The seekins precision bottom metal has the exact same manual of arms as an AR with respect to switching magazines. I'm pretty well practiced in it and am very happy with this aspect of the HPGPR. The metal MPI mags don't stick down objectionably far and will seat on a closed bolt with 10 rounds. The magpul 10 rounders will only seat on a closed bolt with 9 rounds so that's how I carry them. However, they are a true single stack so they're pretty long. Not a problem for your spares and it's nice to have another AICS option in the supply chain. On a side note, the magpul 10 rounders will seat on a closed bolt on the RGS with 10 rounds in them. 

 

 As mentioned before, the Leupold IER 1-4 is a fine choice for this application from an optic standpoint and also from the standpoint of letting the bolt action be run hard and fast. The griffin titanium muzzle brake paired with the HTG stock makes the recoil impulse extremely manageable. Not 5.56 AR manageable, but way more manageable than an RGS in stock form, or my mauser. Pretty doggone easy to drive. The safety was something I didn't really consider, but it's a big factor. The mauser safety is a big "flag" that didn't allow me to simultaneously get my sight picture and take the rifle off safe. The safety on the remington works great in this regard and is similar enough to my 1911 and AR (right hand safety activation while mounting) to be pretty transferable. It also encourages the good precision rifle practice of keeping the thumb in line with the action instead of wrapped around the stock. And the HTG is plenty of meat to hold onto to keep doing it this way even when driving the rifle. 

I do find in switching back to a bolt action for most of my rifle carry that I'll really need to be conscientious about retraining myself to automatically run the action after firing. This is a little bit of a conundrum with manual actions -- for precision, your follow through has to do with keeping the sight on target during the recoil impulse and then cycling the action after. For close in, your follow through has to do with cycling the action during the recoil impulse and coming back out of recoil onto target with another round chambered. This is basically a training issue I'll have to devote some time to getting back into the groove on. Of course the AR is nicer in this regard, but I don't feel crippled by the bolt action. 

The final point on AR versus HPGPR is length of pull. With a pack on and also as a beside the bed option, I run the AR a click in from normal. The length of pull on the HPGPR isn't crippling in this regard, but I do really find myself missing being able to shorten the stock by a half an inch or whatever it is. From a weight standpoint, the all up weight of the AR versus HPGPR is almost identical. 8lbs 5oz on the HPGPR with light, 1-4 optic, and 11 rounds on board. 8lb 7oz weight on the AR with light, 2-7 optic, and 20 rounds on board.

So that's where I am on the thing for now.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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4/24/2016 9:26 AM
 
I find that a sweet looking rig. I personally prefer contolled round feeding a la Mauser/Win 70/Ruger 77...but so what? Sweet is still sweet.

I regret not picking up a Clifton from back in the day. Water under the bridge at this point. I do wonder from time to time whatever happened to him and his rifles? I've never seen one come up on the used market either - which kinda tells the tale.

Awesome rig there...a true "lifetime" rifle.
 
New Post
4/24/2016 10:40 AM
 
El Mac wrote:
I find that a sweet looking rig. I personally prefer contolled round feeding a la Mauser/Win 70/Ruger 77...but so what? Sweet is still sweet.

I regret not picking up a Clifton from back in the day. Water under the bridge at this point. I do wonder from time to time whatever happened to him and his rifles? I've never seen one come up on the used market either - which kinda tells the tale.

Awesome rig there...a true "lifetime" rifle.

+1 ^^ on what El Mac said.  I think Evan's HPG Practical Rifle is just as close to what Jeff Cooper had in mind with his Scout Rifle Concept as any others out there.  Fine looking shootin' iron from my optic on the subject!

Looking at Evan's has me (once again) irritated that Ruger still hasn't offered their Gunsite synthetic stock as an aftermarket retrofit-able product.  I even toyed with the idea of buying a synthetic stock meant for the Ruger American Rifle and having it re-worked / shaped to fit the Gunsite.  Hmm...I wonder if that is worth a try as a viable option?  Thoughts from others here?  It would certainly be less $ than a McMillan.


Hill People Gear Coureurs des Bois (Brand Ambassador). Victoria faveat paratam. De Oppresso Liber.
 
New Post
4/24/2016 11:02 AM
 
alpendrms wrote:  I even toyed with the idea of buying a synthetic stock meant for the Ruger American Rifle and having it re-worked / shaped to fit the Gunsite.  Hmm...I wonder if that is worth a try as a viable option?  Thoughts from others here?  It would certainly be less $ than a McMillan.

 

Two different stocks, totally.  radically different bottom metal.  Also, the RAR stock is a floppy el-cheapo, not worth bothering with.  The RGS stock is stiff, like that on a Tikka.  I'd pondered whittling that laminated stock down, its pretty "fat".  Hollowing out the butt would save several ounces.
 
New Post
4/24/2016 11:05 AM
 
El Mac wrote:
I find that a sweet looking rig. I personally prefer contolled round feeding a la Mauser/Win 70/Ruger 77...but so what? Sweet is still sweet.

I regret not picking up a Clifton from back in the day. Water under the bridge at this point. I do wonder from time to time whatever happened to him and his rifles? I've never seen one come up on the used market either - which kinda tells the tale.

Awesome rig there...a true "lifetime" rifle.

 IIRC, Cooper's last iteration on the Sako action had a Clifton stock, with a pedestal barrel.  Pretty much a Rifleman's talisman/object of admiration comparable to Clarence White's Telecaster for a country rocker.

 
New Post
4/24/2016 11:53 AM
 
Take-a-knee wrote:

 Hollowing out the butt would save several ounces.

However, if I remove a substantial amount of material from the butt portion in order to significantly reduce overall weight, I would also probably need to remove material from the fore end portion as well, as that the balance of the rifle would likely be degraded.  Maybe that's splitting hairs over it, but certainly the balance would be affected if material is only removed from the butt portion.  Not a mission-stopper, but still a consideration, since the rifle could end up feeling awfully barrel-heavy.


Hill People Gear Coureurs des Bois (Brand Ambassador). Victoria faveat paratam. De Oppresso Liber.
 
New Post
4/24/2016 12:56 PM
 

Read some posts on other forums about pros/cons of hollowing a laminated stock and boring out a channel below the barrel.  Thinking that maybe the cons outweigh the pros for doing it.  Advertised weight of a standard RGS is 7.1 lbs, versus the 6.2 lbs of the synthetic version.  Factors such as balance, stock strength, felt recoil, and overall shoot-ability have me leaning toward just leaving the stock alone and being happy with it as is, until Ruger finally gets off their butts and offers the synthetic stock as a product.  Maybe I'll just do a nice paint job on the laminated stock.


Hill People Gear Coureurs des Bois (Brand Ambassador). Victoria faveat paratam. De Oppresso Liber.
 
New Post
4/24/2016 2:19 PM
 
Congratulations Evan nice rifle.

It looks great and I am sure it will serve you well. Can't wait to see your range - field report.

I do have a question what was the price point you were going for and did you hit it?

It does look like you made all of your design criteria. Don't you love it when a plan comes together.

I will keep an eye out for your future posts on this one.

Best regards,

Roadie
 
New Post
4/24/2016 2:36 PM
 
El Mac wrote:

I regret not picking up a Clifton from back in the day. Water under the bridge at this point. I do wonder from time to time whatever happened to him and his rifles? I've never seen one come up on the used market either - which kinda tells the tale.

 

He actually called in on our 888 number this year. He thought he might have been the one who made the stock for my Mauser that I wouldn't name the builder on and had some questions about the stock. I called back, got his vmail, assured him that it wasn't him who made the stock unless he was making stocks for this other maker at some point and complimented him on his rifles. Never did hear back from him. It says a lot that he happened to read a complaint about something he thought he had made any number of years ago and wanted to follow up on it.

 


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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4/27/2016 9:56 PM
 
That is a work of utilitarian art for sure!!

* Fidelis Usque Ad Mortem * De Oppresso Liber *
 
New Post
4/29/2016 8:40 AM
 
I have handled 3 Cliftons at this point and several Brockman Scouts, and have to say Evan's Mauser is as nice or nicer than the Cliftons and Brockmans. I have had the opportunity to buy a Clifton, but passed. In a lot of ways the Brockman Practical Rifle is the impetus for all the various rifle projects over the years, and is a very nice rifle. Just because I wouldn't mind having one, but feel the HPGPR is a better rifle due to more modern features, and I think at about half the price.

The price point we were trying to hit was sub-2k. At this point it is a bit hard to tell if we hit it or not as it has been such a long project, and included quite a bit of prototyping on the rail. It also didn't factor in batch purchases on some components which would have brought the price down. I suspect that we wouldn't have hit it, but probably could have gotten it pretty close.

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
New Post
5/2/2016 7:17 PM
 
Coming from the "Bush Country", what's the overall length of the rifle?

Would the 2K price tag be a complete package?

Interesting rifle

Thanks
L-R
 
New Post
5/3/2016 4:01 PM
 
Scot,

No matter how you try coming in under 2K is a real challenge on a proper semi-custom field rifle. It sure looks like a proper field rifle to me.

I am sure they would have sold in that price range.

Best regards,

Roadie
 
New Post
5/3/2016 6:04 PM
 
If by all up you mean including scope, sling, light, etc... as all up, no. That goal was for the rifle and at least two if not three magazines to hit that price point. The three magazines part was being aggressive. I just did some very rough math, and I THINK we would have been around 2300- 2400 sans magazines, but maybe even a bit better depending on what kind of bulk pricing we could have gotten on some of the parts as most of the small parts costs were retail or for a single item rather than a batch. At that price point, we would have had to think long and hard about moving forward with the project.

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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Edward Curtis Canyon De Chelly
When humans first set foot in a new continent, they came in small groups under their own power, bringing only the gear they needed. Most simply called themselves The People. Over time, those who chose the rougher freer life of the up country came to think of themselves as the Hill People.
Hill People Gear