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HomeHomeDiscussionsDiscussionsGeneralGeneralWhen is a Shelter Wood Stove Necessary?When is a Shelter Wood Stove Necessary?
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10/15/2012 11:58 AM
 

This goes out to all who use the floorless shelter w/ wood burning stove set-up.

With winter approaching and the possibilty of moving north has me re-thinking my shelter set up. Where I live now, hammock is king, just use insulation or under quilts and build fire next to shelter if needed.

At what temperatures and climate would you consider a wood stove in a shelter necessary? If I choose to go this route I need fire to:

  1. cook my food
  2. heat my shelter
  3. be a companion

some other factors when you consider to carry a stove:

  1. is it worth the extra weight
  2. box style v.s. round roll up style
  3. year around carry or just when temps drop

thanks for your feedback

 
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10/15/2012 1:54 PM
 

I don't know that a woodstove is ever strictly necessary, but it sure does add a HUGE measure of comfort and safety.

First the hammock thing - I get the use of a hammock when your problem is staying cool enough at night. Any time you have the opposite problem, it doesn't take too much math to realize that you spend more weight counteracting the cooling effects of being off the ground than is probably worth it.

I've gone back and forth about always carrying a stove. Any time you are tent bound and it is 40 degrees and pissing rain (which could be anytime in the Rockies), you'll wish you had your stove with you. When it's not raining and reliably not getting colder than 45 or so at night, stove usually seems like more trouble than it is worth.

This past week when I was out I was carrying a beat up old 30 degree bag that is now probably good for 45 and a Mountain Serape. As usual, MS was an overbag for the sleeping bag. I was up at 10,500 and it was windy all night and got down to 38 degrees. I was plenty warm in my sleeping arrangement, and acceptably warm in the MS while messing around with the elk. Wind chill at that point would have been 20-25. However, it was close enough to the edge that I decided that was my last trip of the season without a wood stove. I was feeling a little bit exposed to the elements in a way that I never do with a woodstove. You would have to carry a LOT of extra clothing weight to compensate for the ability to heat your shelter to 60 degrees or so regardless of what is going on outside.

In terms of weight, I'm willing to skimp on clothing insulation if I have a woodstove.

In terms of stove style, wait and see. I just filed for a patent on the HPG stove design last week. Once I've got official notification via snail mail of the filing date I'll be willing to talk more freely about it.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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10/15/2012 3:55 PM
 

Saving weight and more importantly, space in my pack is what I am after. Leaving the bulky clothing behind replaced by a fold flat type stove is a bonus.

I have very little experiene logging time in cold weather country, so I am naturally curious how useful these stoves are. I imagine walking into a toasty shelter can make a world of difference.

HPG stove, now that sounds awesome.

 
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10/21/2012 2:49 PM
 

 Never really required. However, I think  everyone on my camp the last few days would say a stove was one of the best pieces of gear we had, especially when temperatures never reached freezing for close to 72 hours. That being said, the night I carried 100 plus pounds of elk down a steep trail less mountain side at midnight the stove did not get used. Instead, I had a shot of whiskey and went to bed. 

 


http://www.seekoutside.com | sig added by EH... go check out Kevin's stuff!
 
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10/30/2012 2:59 PM
 

Kevin, you were supposed to call me! I ended up back in Dominguez canyon when you would have called anyway.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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10/30/2012 4:58 PM
 

kevin_t wrote
 

 Never really required. 

Ha!  I invite you to use the word "Never" after you've hunted elk in some deep dark hole in 100% humidity in wind driven rain and sleet for a week here in the Northwest.

 
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10/30/2012 6:43 PM
 

Hi Bushcraft

Have you seen my photo of the LBO from our hunting trip on campfire ? It was above 10,000 feet, with wind and fog , sleet, hail and snow for 2 days. That should qualify, and yes we were very glad to have a stove, but we would not have died without it.  Would we have been cold and cranky ? Yes, but not dead.

 


http://www.seekoutside.com | sig added by EH... go check out Kevin's stuff!
 
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10/30/2012 8:14 PM
 

I can't wait to learn more about your stove design Evan.  It would seem that the stove concept has been heavily visited, but you and Scot are superb at thinking out side the box (pun intended) so I'm anxious to learn what you've designed.

 
New Post
10/30/2012 10:35 PM
 
kevin_t wrote
Hi Bushcraft
Have you seen my photo of the LBO from our hunting trip on campfire ? It was above 10,000 feet, with wind and fog , sleet, hail and snow for 2 days. That should qualify, and yes we were very glad to have a stove, but we would not have died without it. Would we have been cold and cranky ? Yes, but not dead.
Kevin,
 
Yes, I've seen the pics of your recent trip.  Congratulations on the successful hunt. I'm glad that someone finally put two shelters together with a tarp, as I've wanted to see done for almost a decade now. Seemed like a no brainer to me. I hope you sell a lot of them!
 
Anyhooo...WRT qualifying statements, I don't want to go all "Kutenay" on you and summarily declare that you couldn't possibly know what in the heck you’re are talking about since you don't live and hunt where I do here in the Pacific Northwest, but I suppose I feel somewhat inclined to take issue with the qualifiers you've provided to support your case for one not really needing a stove.
 
I've heard the 10,000' Colorado thing thrown around before as if it should somehow be considered relevant. It's not. Other than the lack of O2 that lower elevation denizens need to get acclimated to, it's really not a factor in one's comfort and safety when it comes to exposure to the elements.
 
Fog and wind? Big whoop.
 
Snow? Yawn. Bring it. I'd rather have it than rain any day.
 
Sleet? Now you are getting my attention. And, you had sleet for exactly how long while you were out there on your hunt? And what did that sort of precipitation translate into in terms of inches of water? Humidity levels? How saturated was the fuel wood that was available to you for you to burn?
 
Well, the answer according to the following USGS's precipitation site for Colorado, was, well...not that much at all.
 
 
Granted, weather stations aren't everywhere, and maybe even not where you hunted, but there was less than .25"...in aggregate...over the last 7 days at the "worst" station located anywhere in the western half of Colorado...and not a whole lot more than that in the past 30 days.
 
That's merely a sprinkle compared to the 5-6 inches we had during the last three and a half days we were out in the field hunting elk...which melted the 8-10 inches of wet snow that was already there when we started out...that was covering a bunch of wet frozen stuff from previous rains. I'm pretty sure you didn't have to cut dead trees down and split the wood to get to some material in the center that was dry enough to burn in order to dry out the rest of what you cut or gathered like we did. I'm 100% positive that you didn't have to cross creeks that were maybe boot high went you went in and dangerous thigh-high torrents with an elk on your back on your way out like we did. I'm also pretty sure all that your temperatures weren't in the 28-40 degree range with 100% humidity and high winds most of the time you were out there, like ours were. That sort of weather doesn't just make people cold and cranky if they can't get warm and dry...it's the sort that kills 'em dead if they don't know what they are doing.
 
Point being is that there are a LOT of inexperienced and impressionable people that read this and other forums and it's unwise for anyone (particularly a shelter manufacturer of all people), to make blanket statements like "you don't really need a wood stove" - that might very well apply to where you live/hunt in the relatively arid Colorado climate, but could be a recipe for a hypothermia related tragedy elsewhere.
 
Regards,
 
Allen

forumPoster is not the actual poster. If you are the actual poster, please make another quick post claiming this post. Sorry, too much moderator overhead to change the attribution on this post.
 
New Post
11/1/2012 7:20 PM
 

That was my post.  Thanks for fixing the thread Evan!

Allen

 
New Post
11/1/2012 10:14 PM
 

Hi Allen

I understand the difference in the climates between CO and the PNW. Yes Colorado is generally drier than the PNW. However, no matter how nice a wood stove is to have, and whatever the benefits you will be hard pressed for me to say ithat a stove is required. People climb Everest without a wood stove, people climb Vinson without a wood stove, people climb Denali without a wood stove.  I've known people that have done multi week Ice clibing trips in SE Alaska without a wood stove. Is a wood stove nice ? Heck ya!! Is it required ? Not with proper preparation. Would I take one when I can ? You bet. But I won't call it a requirement. We can simple agree to disagree.

Thanks

Kevin


http://www.seekoutside.com | sig added by EH... go check out Kevin's stuff!
 
New Post
11/1/2012 10:21 PM
 

As a shelter and stove manufacturer, I try to not be a salesman as much as I try to give people the most honest, and responsible advice I can give. My ideal, is to get everyone in a setup that works for them. I don't care so much if I sell a wood stove or a tent as part of the deal but I want people to get a set up that flat out works for the conditions they expect. The initial poster is actually a potential SO customer, and I told them something along the lines of "well a stove isn't really ever required but ... it can certainly be nice" .

Getting people in a setup that works for them, that is my goal. The business will come.

Back to the subject at hand.

Regards

Kevin


http://www.seekoutside.com | sig added by EH... go check out Kevin's stuff!
 
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HomeHomeDiscussionsDiscussionsGeneralGeneralWhen is a Shelter Wood Stove Necessary?When is a Shelter Wood Stove Necessary?