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8/12/2013 12:39 PM
 
I have owned and used tipis from Kifaru, Seek Outside and Ti Goat in multiple sizes. However, I am considering finding a "standable" smaller shelter for my individual needs. I have owned and used a Kifaru paratipi over the past ten years. For the past couple of years the paratipi has been relegated to emergency shelter use only, a position it fulfills very well I might ad. Anymore, my solo backpack hunting shelter has been my 6 man tipi (currently Seek Outside). I am looking for a smaller solo version in which I can stand. The 4 man shelters from all manufacturers just does not accommodate a functional standing use for a person like me who is 6' tall. The Kifaru Sawtooth caught my attention; however, for the weight, I may as well be carrying my 6 man. I am trying to determine if the SO BCS(II) would be a suitable replacement for the paratipi. Is it also too close in size to the 6-man to justify a separate purchase? Has anybody owned both the paratipi and the SO BCS so as to be able to render a personal comparison beyond a look at the specs and compare? Thanks in advance.
 
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8/12/2013 2:58 PM
 

I don't understand the "need" to stand?  Just go outside:)  Any of the shelters you mentioned are most likely going to have one tiny area that you can stand fully erect, at the cost of turning the shelter into a big sail in bad weather.  For a solo heated shelter, I'm liking my Golite SLS that I added a stovejack to.  I thought it might be big enough for two plus a stove that simply isn't doable.  It is fine for one.  After a lot of pondering this topic I am of the opinion that the age-old "mid" (pyramid) in sil or possibly cuben might be as good as it gets for a heated shelter that needs to be as light as possible.

 
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8/12/2013 3:13 PM
 

 Take-a-knee, thanks for the response.    A tiny area in which to stand (and stretch and dress and relieve the compressed disk in my back) etc, is exactly what I'm looking for, all of which I can't do in my paratipi.  As a matter of fact, being smarter than a small soapdish (if only slightly) in the past I have done exactly as suggested by your tongue in cheek response, I've gone outside.  Like I said in my original post, the 6 man works.  I'm just looking for something smaller than the 6 man and larger than the paratipi in which I can stand.  Also, if you've ever used a paratipi (which I do love by the way), there is a lot of non-usable space.  Add to that, I am a gear nut, and always look to try new things and, hence, I am seeking personal hands on comparisons for the paratipi and BCS.

 
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8/12/2013 9:22 PM
 

 Thom,

 

I owned a ParaTipi for many years and there were a lot of things I liked, but several that I didn't. The stove placement didn't work well for me. I found it ate up a lot of floor space and made sleeping with a stove going a little on the wild side. Not real effecient space to weight ratio IMO. The rear pole also ate a lot of living space.

The BCS ( I still prefer the origional without the extra panel) is myall time  favorite solo or two man shelter. And I really like being able to walk in and out of the shelter. Other big plusses with the BCS are sod skirt and zipper flap. The sod skirt seals up the shelter and the flap keep rain from coming in the zipper. More wind stable than a mid too.

If you want see one pitched sometime, give me a shout.

Best'

Ed

 
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8/12/2013 10:28 PM
 

 Hey Ed,

Thanks for the input.  I've actually thought about stopping in to see you a few times in the past week to have just this discussion.  Maybe I will do so yet.  My reasons for my interest seem to be exactly as you've stated.  I think I told you last time I saw you that I had switched to the SO 6-man.  The paratipi has served me well; but, for the reasons you have stated, I am seeking the switch.  I came to the point a long time ago, because of the location for the stove, I rarely ever use one in the paratipi.  I believe I will take you up on your offer in the near future as an in-person viewing may be just what it takes.

Thom

 
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8/13/2013 8:19 PM
 

I can't directly answer your question, but I have spent a fair amount of time in a BCS 1. It is kind of a funny "tweener" tent that sits in between solo shelters and 2-3 person shelters. I decided I liked my GoLite Utopia 2 better for solo use. Easier to conserve heat, easier to set up in a variety of terrain (it's freestanding), significantly smaller packed than the BCS, and it just feels right to me. But you can't stand up in it. The BCS 1 without the zip out door felt too narrow to me. I couldn't really stand up in it because the peak was so narrow. Mostly the height felt wasted to me. With the extra panel in, it really started to have some interesting properties. Comfortable for 2, but I slept the whole family of 5 in it on one trip. When Kevin asked what I would do to a BCS 2 myself, my recommendations were to make it about 6" shorter and make the door permanent, hopefully getting the extra space of the panel for little to no weight penalty over the BCS 1 without door.

Unfortunately, my BCS was lost on a trip (how does that happen? took me a while to figure it out myself) so now I'm slowly considering what to replace it with. We've got Utopias, a Shangri-la 4, and Kifaru 12 man in the mix. The SL works fine, but I'm not a huge fan of it. To get the most out of it, you have to use all of the mid wall guyouts and I'm just not a fan of how that turns out. Too imprecise. It's always lopsided and funky somehow. Mid wall guyouts are fine, but they have to be engineered into the cut of the shelter like they are on the K Sawtooth. (I've got the same reservations about the K megatarp incidentally). So then for that 2-3 guy backcountry shelter that still makes sense to be used by one if he's willing to carry some weight, do you go with a BCS or just step up to the 6-man? I've got the same question you have and it's not resolved in my mind.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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8/14/2013 9:51 AM
 

 Evan,

 

Just curious, when you say you find the BCS without the zip-in panel too narrow, are you sleeping across or lengthwise. If across, I can understand. I always sleep long wise, one person on each side of the pole.

 
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8/14/2013 10:41 AM
 

Ed T wrote

 Evan,

 

Just curious, when you say you find the BCS without the zip-in panel too narrow, are you sleeping across or lengthwise. If across, I can understand. I always sleep long wise, one person on each side of the pole.

It is fine for sleeping in lengthwise. I meant it feels too narrow to take much advantage of the height of it. Without the zip in panel, the amount of standable and even crouchable space is pretty miniscule. There, but miniscule. Once you put in the panel, it really opens up the amount of space you can stand or crouch in, and also the amount of space available for several people to sit in around the stove. Also, I like the idea of it being less slab sided for wind load with the zip in panel in place. Not that it ever seemed to have a problem shedding cross wind without the panel, just that I like how much more rounded it is with it.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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8/14/2013 11:03 AM
 

I can't help out with the paratipi, but to prove that Evan and I don't always agree, my favorite one to two person shelter is still the SL4+/5.  I think it is a ton easier to put up, offers more useable room (subjectively since I honestly don't know one way or the other), and is lighter weight with a carbon pole if memory serves.  I am not a fan of the BCS, because I think the extra height is unusable especially if a stove is in use since I have to crouch down to get around the pole anyway it is no easier to access than the SL. I too am a huge fan of the Golite Utopia largely because you can set it up without relying on the stakes, but you pay a weight penalty, and they no longer make it.  I would say you should look at the LBO with annex instead of the BCS.  I need to get an annex for mine, but it seems to offer a lot of the same attributes I like about the SL in a smaller and lighter package. 

For me the BCS doesn't feel like a standup shelter so I just don't get the reason for the extra height and thus shape.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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8/14/2013 1:01 PM
 

The BCS 2 is a lot more efficienct in terms of usable space and stove location. It has numerous side guy outs, which when used make almost every sq foot of the shelter usable. The LBO, with the 3 part vestibule / annex I personally  love. Two can sleep across the pole and each person has an entrance or exit. Two will work with a stove, but with a different sleeping orientation. Both setup very easily on relatively level ground. 

 

 


http://www.seekoutside.com | sig added by EH... go check out Kevin's stuff!
 
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8/14/2013 7:33 PM
 

 Interesting how people have different needs and perceptions. I have spent a lot of nights in SL4/5's and although I liked the shelter, it seemed much less roomy and space effecient than the BCS. I also feel that in the BCS 1, the space is much more usable the way I pitch it than with the extra panel.  Only thing I have ever used the extra panel for is when I want bug netting. Looking forward to seeing the BCS 2 as it looks to have some good features.

 
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8/15/2013 2:23 PM
 

I think you will love it Ed (the BCS2). Once we get a couple of them assembled I'll send you one to check out. I'm going to use it scouting this weekend in the Grande (still not sure of the name)  variation for 4 guys and a stove.  


http://www.seekoutside.com | sig added by EH... go check out Kevin's stuff!
 
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