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8/4/2019 7:09 PM
 

Ok, so honestly I never heard of it til today, at least not in a meaningful way that stuck out to me. But I was reading the 10mm thread and it was referenced. I want schooled on this round, I.e guns that are better to run it in, are there pistols that will run it without much work from the factory, reloading etc.

 

 

i have kinda decided that my 10mm would be less needed and I could shoot more cheaply if I had a pistol that could run 45acp as well. Also the lower preasure appeals to me

 
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8/5/2019 1:29 PM
 

Here's an 1146 post thread on p-f.com to get you started:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...45-field-pistol

BLUF, the guy who started the thread has quite a bit of dirt time in Alaska, and has had a DLP shooting of a griz. He's tried literally every combination of "field pistol" you can think of (including the various 10mm offerings), and makes a great argument for the HK USP which will run .45 Super safely out of the box.

 

 
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8/5/2019 6:12 PM
 
Operating pressures for the .45 Auto, .45 Auto (+P) and .45 Super are 21k, 23k and 28k respectively. While I like the theoretical performance implications of the Super, my own personal sense of logic compels me to stay with my normal choices in .45 acp hardware (Glocks and 1911's which have proven reliable with +P ammo) in lieu of a relatively modest 100 fps gain in velocity.

But having just said that, I'd love to have one of these as a launch platform for the Super.

:^)

https://www.guncrafterindustries.com/the-h-o-s-s-custom-1911/


 
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8/5/2019 8:26 PM
 
The attraction for me of .45 Super would be it pushes a 255 grain bullet better than a regular .45, but if a fellow ventured forth with a .45 ACP I'd never say he was wrong.

 
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8/6/2019 5:59 AM
 
Wose wrote:
The attraction for me of .45 Super would be it pushes a 255 grain bullet better than a regular .45, but if a fellow ventured forth with a .45 ACP I'd never say he was wrong.


I agree 100%. But from what I hear and read, that bullet profile doesn't feed well in a lot of guns …. much like the 220 gr cast bullet in 10mm. Great terminal performance but reliability is often the compromise.
 
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8/6/2019 6:09 PM
 

I am curious about how well the 255 acp rounds work in a Glock, but I will say I have shot a few rounds of my buddies 255 thru a Kimber Ultra 3” and they were flawless for all that he ran thru it(this gun was a bit on the finicky side, but to the best of my knowledge it ran the 255s)

 
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8/7/2019 10:03 AM
 

Typically, the pattern I've seen is that when we run ammo that is outside design parameters for a particular gun, it often will run in small quantities with a perfect grip.

For example, my stock Glock 20 would run with 200 grain WFN hard cast bullets going 1200 fps, most of the time. So if you bought a box of 20 and ran them through the gun and called it good, you'd be tempted to think you had a reliable combo.

Once the sample size was expanded to several hundred rounds, the gun would exhibit a 5% to 8% failure rate, even with a good firm grip. Not good.

With even a slightly compromised grip, the failure rate would skyrocket. All guns will choke if you limp wrist them bad enough, but it's common to have a less than perfect grip when things go south.

After a while, this gets expensive and time consuming. When I would change something like a recoil component, essentially the clock would start over and I'd feel it necessary to fire a few hundred rounds from that configuration.

Buying that much Buffalo Bore or DoubleTap was un-possible, so I would use handloads. What finally made me break up with the 10mm was I had what I thought was a reliable combo (200 grains at 1050) and started having random failures out of the blue.

One of the advantages of using common service pistols, firing common ammunition, is that we have data about what works. For one example, a Glock 9mm shooting Gold Dots or HSTs is in common usage among law enforcement units. Millions of rounds go down range from that combination every year, so we have a huge sample size and if there were some systemic incompatibility between say, a Glock 19 and a 124 grain Gold Dot, we'd know about it right quick.

When we start getting into "Field Pistols" with non-standard ammo, we're out where the buses don't run.

 
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8/7/2019 11:04 AM
 
Wose wrote:
Typically, the pattern I've seen is that when we run ammo is outside design parameters for a particular gun, it often will run in small quantities with a perfect grip.

For example, my stock Glock 20 would run with 200 grain WFN hard cast bullets going 1200 fps, most of the time. So if you bought a box of 20 and ran them through the gun and called it good, you'd be tempted to think you had a reliable combo.

Once the sample size was expanded to sevearl hundred roudns, the gun would exhibit a 5% to 8% failure rate, even with a good firm grip. Not good.

With even a slightly compromised grip, the failure rate would skyrocket. All guns will choke if you limp wrist them bad enough, but it's common to have a less than perfect grip when things go south.

After a while, this gets expensive and time consuming. When I would change something like a recoil component, essentially the clock woudl start over and I'd feel it necessary to fire a few hundred rounds from that configuration.

Buying that much Buffalo Bore or DoubleTap was un-possible, so I would use handloads. What finally made me break up with the 10mm was I had what I thought was a reliable combo (200 grains at 1050) and started having random failures out of the blue.

One of the advantage of using common service pistols, firing common ammunition, is we have data about what works. For one example, a Glock 9mm shooting Gold Dots or HSTs is in common usage among law enforcement units. Millions of rounds go down range from that combination every year, so we have a huge sample size and if there were some systemic incompatability between say, a Glock 19 and a 124 grain Gold Dot, we'd know about it right quick.

When we start getting into "Field Pistols" with non-standard ammo, we're out where the buses don't run.


That's a good observation and it brings up a couple of issues that I find troubling. First, it's how little vetting goes on
before a gun is considered GTG. Secondly, how reliability is too often NOT considered priority #1.
 
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8/7/2019 2:18 PM
 

You all have me worried.

All auto pistol rounds for bear defense seem to be push the envelop propositions - 10mm and .40S&W 200gr, .45 super, .45 smc, .460 Rowland etc.

Is there a good auto pistolgun/cartridge combo for bear defense?

Or are we back to DA revolvers?

 
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8/7/2019 5:34 PM
 
We probably spend more time thinking about this than we need to.

I think there is a difference between a "viable" bear cartridge, and an "optimal" bear cartridge.

For lower 48 state issues, where we have to deal with cougars, black bears, and meth heads, it seems like ordinary service pistol cartridges like 9mm/.40/.45 work well enough, especially with modern barrier blind ammo.

Over on the 10mm thread we had a link to that ammo land article about people using various cartridges against grizzly bears. My biggest takeaway from that was getting the gun into the fight early and making good hits was more important than caliber, which sounds familiar.

So I think service pistol cartridges are viable woods loads. I also think I can make an argument that a wide meplat, high sectional density bullet going 1000 fps + is a optimal woods load, but ONLY if the gun will run.

 
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8/7/2019 8:43 PM
 

Wose,

What you say makes sense.  I’ve backpacked in three places in the lower 48 with grizzlies-Glacier and Grand Teton NPs and Wind River Range so my interest isn’t just theoretical.

I have been carrying a Glock 20 when in griz country using 200gr Corbon Hunter which they say are jacketed hard cast with a muzzle velocity of 1125fps.

Have been ready at times to be ready to trade the G20and use a 5” .40 loaded with Buffalo Bore, DT or Underwood 200gr hardcast if I knew  they would run reliably.  I haven’t made the jump yet though.

 
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8/8/2019 5:34 AM
 

Wose

 

i didn’t click the link in the 10mm thread but if it is the same info I read, the premise was hard ball/hard cast + volume was key. 

 

In the the article I read they had at least 3-4 incidents for all the major calibers between 9mm and 44... the only incident that didn’t go well, the guy shot one round of 357 mag then went fetal and got bit

 
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