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3/12/2016 8:13 PM
 

Like many of you (I presume) there is just something I love about the 1911 series of handguns. A combination of nostalgia and a record of solid performance I think. I am just curious what the collective thoughts are on this. I find myself in the market for a full sized handgun. Primarily considering a Glock 34 or getting a RIA railed 1911 to tinker with. This isn't a need, but it could end up being used for self defense either from my kit bag or in my home, so that's worth considering. I hear good things about the RIA/Armscor guns, but my inner voice says less than 1k for a far-from-GI 1911 could be bad news. Just to keep it fair, presume for the sake of argument that there are no other firearms in the competition. Anyway, thanks for being my sounding board. 

 
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3/13/2016 10:06 AM
 
If I was in the market for a 1911, and couldn't afford a Les Baer, I'd consider a Dan Wesson.  If I couldn't afford that, I'd give up on the idea and get something else, like a Glock 41
 
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3/13/2016 11:24 AM
 
Why is that?
 
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3/13/2016 12:07 PM
 
praharin wrote:
Why is that?

 

Because I'm tired of "gun projects".  I'd much prefer to buy something that is good-to-go, out-of-the box.
 
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3/13/2016 12:19 PM
 
I had a $500 Springfield GI that went 2000 rounds without a single issue that couldn't be traced back to a single bad magazine. I really shouldn't have sold it, but I'm constantly searching for "just right" and have trouble with "good enough". You don't need to spend $3000 for a good 1911
 
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3/13/2016 12:56 PM
 
praharin wrote:
Why is that?

 

Read almost any handgun thread and you will get your answer, and that is all the more that needs to be said on that by anyone so hopefully we don't just re-hash the same old arguments.

First question to ask, is do you have a spare of your carry gun, plenty of magazines, both training and using ammunition stockpiled, holsters/mag pouches, and training on how to use your primary sorted out?

 If you want a 1911 get one, they are a great gun, but like most things you get what you pay for, up to a certain point at least.  I am not convinced that you aren't just paying for name beyond that point, especially since prices on most of the semi-customs have double in the last few years and as far as I can tell all that has changed is demand.  Between Evan and I, we have 6 Springfields. I had to tune the extractor on one, and it was a 9mm and CCO style.  Other than that issue, we haven't had a lick of trouble with any of them and all are well over 1k in rounds.  I take that back, I have had two magazines go bad on me that were years old.  For us they have been as reliable as any other gun we have owned and in some cases more reliable.  At this point if you are interested in a 1911 you really need to figure out what you are looking for (rail no rail, fixed or adjustable sights, what kind of finish, etc...) and then select from there. I think right now the Ranger Officer line from Springfield is a best buy for those who are looking to try out a 1911.  Basically, on the Range Officer line they have cut corners where the can be cut (finish and single sided saftey for example), but maintained the other features and quality that folks expect.  I would recommend not getting any caliber but 45. I personally recommend a light rail, and a fullsize but beyond that a lot of it is personal choice.  Brands to look at Springfield and Colt, and beyond that I wouldn't bother (with the exception of select Dan Wessons).   I personally default to Springfield because they have been so reliable for us and they have features that I look for that Colt doesn't have.

 If you are invested in the Glock world than a very strong argument could be made for getting another one especially if you already have your logistics sorted out.  Heck going down the road of a new pistol brand can easily mean that you spend as much to sort out logistics, or more, than you did on the dang gun. 

 


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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3/13/2016 1:36 PM
 
Have you tried out a Springfield arms XDm? I recently bought one in .40/and it is the best handgun I've ever shot besides my H&k USP .40. Just food for thought, you get the reliability of a flock, ease of disassembly of a flock, but without the weird angle of the glocka.

Just go try one out before you make your mind up, I think you will be glad you did.

Platypus
 
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3/13/2016 2:01 PM
 
praharin wrote:
I had a $500 Springfield GI that went 2000 rounds without a single issue that couldn't be traced back to a single bad magazine. I really shouldn't have sold it, but I'm constantly searching for "just right" and have trouble with "good enough". You don't need to spend $3000 for a good 1911

 If I was determined to get a 1911 for under 1K, a Springfield would be my first (and only ) choice.  I would only add that if you do much of anything to it, IE, new barrel, you'll have spent DW money.

 

 
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3/13/2016 2:02 PM
 
scothill wrote:
praharin wrote:
Why is that?

 .  Heck going down the road of a new pistol brand can easily mean that you spend as much to sort out logistics, or more, than you did on the dang gun. 

 

 

 

This bears repeating.  Magazines, reloading gear, holsters.  It adds up PDQ.
 
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3/13/2016 2:04 PM
 
The grip angle on a Glock can be changed, for about what four or five XD magazines cost.
 
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3/13/2016 5:30 PM
 

I still wrestle with the Glock vs 1911. For heavy, borderline abusive wear or use, I think Glock has the edge. As an example, I can throw a Glock in a belt holster and do heavy work around the place and not worry about, even if it involves rolling around in the dirt like yesterday. I'm well stocked with holsters and mags so that is an incentive to stay with it also.


I started out with 1911s and love them. Nothing feels better in my hand. Nothing has a better trigger. I'd rather carry one. The ones I have including a CCO .45acp have been generally very reliable but can go down hard ( had a plunger tube separate from the frame and the CCO started a mystery FTF after having been 100% for 15+ years (I think it is corrected now).

If one of my Colt 1911s gets lost or taken for evidence after a defensive shooting, they are nearly irreplaceable. A Glock, 15 minutes at a local gun store and I'm back equipped.

Accessories for me are now all Glock or 1911. Adding a new type of gun, would involved several hundred dollars of holsters and magazines as pointed out earlier

Brands of 1911... I am relatively happy with Colts. Based on the endorsements here, I'd look at Springfield. That said, I'd be interested in opinions on the Ruger 1911s. If I did get another 1911, it would probably either be a 10mm or a lightweight full size .45 with rail.
 
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3/13/2016 8:38 PM
 
The Springfield RO Operator is also on my radar. But the RIA is closer in line with the price of the Glock, and I wanted to have opinions based on that. The XD is a terrible handgun in my limited experience with them. They just feel terrible to me. I'd love to go got the RO Operator in 9mm, but as has already been said here, they're questionable at best. However, I don't get into any sort of caliber superiority problems, and the extra round in the magazine would be nice. As well as sharing ammo, as I have a 9mm and no 45. That said, I don't have many calibers at all. 22, 9, 223 and 12 gauge (I'm a bow hunter). So I'm not opposed to adding one more.

To further confuse everyone, I'm also considering adding a S&W 327 8 shot 357/38 and a 37mm launcher just got giggles
 
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3/14/2016 8:40 PM
 
Take-a-knee wrote:

The grip angle on a Glock can be changed, for about what four or five XD magazines cost.

 

Take-a-knee, you are probably right, but I got one hell of a deal on the gun.  It was bought, had one box of brass put through it, and the guy decided he didn't like it.  So he paid 685$ cash, and I got it for 400$cash with a 50round box of cheap brass AFTER HE HAD IT FOR ONE DAY!!!  So yea, the clips are pricey but hopefully the two 16round mags will do for a while.

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 The next gun I am looking at getting is a Ruger Lcr .38,  I don't particularly like the gun, but besides something like a keltec, it is the cheapest gun I think is light enough that I am willing to carry it on my thru hike this year of the AT.  I definitively don't want to carry the XDm, it weighs 30ozs empty... =(

 

God Bless America

Platypus

 
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3/27/2016 10:05 AM
 
If you are still looking, consider Sig Sauer 1911s. They are exceptionally smooth for the money
 
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3/27/2016 1:15 PM
 
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/3/26/nra-gun-of-the-week-eaa-witness-1911-p-pistol/

This looks interesting - EAA polymer frame 1911 with light rail.   Would really be interesting if it was offered in 10mm.

 
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3/28/2016 6:29 PM
 
I cut my teeth on 1911s, enjoyed them immensely and still own half a dozen + versions. In the mid early 90s I started shooting Glocks, starting with a G21.

I transitioned from 90+% 1911 shooting and 10% Glocks, to 90% Glocks.

The punchline is that for heavy use (not just shooting 1K or 2K a year) a Glock is very very hard to beat, and once you master the trigger, they do not hold a good shooter back at all.

The long term durability, coupled by no need for a gunsmith, and ease of maintenance won me over, especially as an outdoors sidearm.

Not too long ago, I picked up a G30S (which is about the size of the G19) .45 compact. This has proven to be an outstanding, lightweight big bore semi auto. Carried with a standard 13 round Glock 21 mag as a reload, it fills the role quite well.

As much as I love a fine 1911, the practical side of me favors a Glock every time.


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Playing in Canadian wolf country, the .45 Glock makes a good bit of sense over my long time favorite N Frame .44 too. This is especially true when you leave your rifle at the pickup and are packing out elk quarters.

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3/29/2016 12:01 AM
 
I have run and like both. I don't think you need to step up to a custom 1911 to get one that works, but you do need to be willing to potentially play the warranty game. I have had to work with the warranty department with both Colt and Kimber to get guns to run. They all run just fine now but it took a bit of work. That being said, I transitioned from a G17 to a 1911 and am now back at a Glock 20 for wilderness use. I have never had any trouble from a Glock, and I am about at Mackay's 90/10 Glock 1911 split. I recently bought a HK VP9 that I shoot slightly better than my G17, but I still grab the G20 100% of the time for wilderness use.
 
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3/29/2016 12:01 PM
 

FWIW, and I am sure that Evan & Scot will attest to this, but I've got over 800 rounds through my Springfield Armory Lightweight Operator 1911 so far, and have not experienced one single glitch, regardless of what magazines I've run or the ammo I've used.  However, as a rule, I run either Chip McCormick Power Plus or Wilson Combat magazines...ones meant for use with the LW model.  The OEM Springfield mags run fine, too.

There is a wee bit more upkeep with a 1911, but I'm fine with that.

Also...today is the 105th birthday of Browning's seminal and timeless 1911!


Hill People Gear Coureurs des Bois (Brand Ambassador). Victoria faveat paratam. De Oppresso Liber.
 
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3/29/2016 4:10 PM
 
In this instance listen to your inner voice. A Glock is 10 times the gun a $600 1911 is, and that’s my opinion after shooting and enjoying 1911s for over 10 years. Now a 1000 or 1200 dollar 1911, and youre dealing with an even playing field.

I have a Springfield Loaded Standard. Its carbon steel with a parkerized finish. In its current iteration it is a reverse plug gun, Storm Lake NM barrel, Nighthawk short guide rod and spring cap, Smith and Alexander mag well and Wilson medium trigger. Other than that it stock to include the excellent ignition parts. There is no other gun that Ive encountered that runs as reliably as my Springfield. I have well over 6000 rounds and Im still on the original extractor. Ive replaced the plunger tube, swaging the part and adding red loctite to the part. Ive also replaced the ejector as it was a bit loose but neither of the parts above were in any danger of causing the gun to not work when a demand to do so was placed upon it.

A 1911 doesn’t fail you, you fail it. It takes some rather simple and mundane checks over some critical parts at certain round count intervals but what gun doesn’t (don’t say Glock, Ive seen plenty of them break). Get the Kuhnhausen manuals and you have a good base for diagnosing and fixing the rare problem here and there.

There is only one magazine for the 1911, and that’s the various Wilson products. Chip McCormick magazines are trash and will experience feed lip deformation before a 47D/T/ETM magazine. Keep your eyes on the follower of a Wilson mag, specifically the shelf that engages the slide lock and you’ll be good to go for a long time. When it stops providing sufficient lift for your slide lock get rid of the spring and follower replace for a nominal fee and keep going. I have 47Ds that have been through thousands upon thousands of cycles, being loaded for months at a time, and I have yet to replace a follower or spring in any of my inventory of magazines.

Contrary to popular belief a 1911 built for service and tolerances accordingly can be tossed around in dirt and muck and still run like a top. Just got back from a tactical oriented shoot where we were throwing magazineless auto pistols in loose pack dirt, along with the magazine, loading the gun and firing it, and there wasn’t a hiccup other than my not getting a mag fully seated and the failure to go to battery that followed, a tap on the baseplate cured it: user induced. A few guns from big manufacturers didn’t fair as good.

Two biggest advantages to a 1911 that I see: sheer accumulated knowledge about what makes it tick and shoot ability. I love my Glocks, Sig 226s and various N/L/K frame Smiths but even with thousands upon thousands of rounds sent home nothing is as shoot able, strong/weak hand only, in an awkward positon, from the perspective of speed, accuracy and recoil management as a 1911. I shoot these other guns with great facility when all is going my way, good stance, good two handed grip, high degree of concentration, standing erect but remove some or all of the above and that’s when things come apart a bit. Can they be largely mitigated by training, sure, anything can, and its not to take away from these other pistols, its just my somewhat well founded determination tat the 1911 has a slight edge in shootability.

Something else that can be said for the 1911 that Ive found very important. Few firearms are as simultaneously fast and safe. A not drop safe 1911 is a things of the past, series 70 or 80. 1911s discharging when dropped, if such event occurred at all was probably as much the fault of the all steel, milled and brazed triggers of the war time guns. The misconception that series 70 guns are not drop safe as result of the firing pin moving innertially doesn’t make much sense when you peak in a modern 1911. From the factory my Springfield comes with a 9mm firing pin, which I believe to be the case for a lot of Springfields. It is smaller and lighter than its larger .45 brethren. Couple that with the fact that its titanium and it effectively renders its mass and inertia void, and that’s discounting the argument of routine firing pin spring maintenance.

Some people consider the 1911s extractor to be the Achilles heel of the gun but a properly tuned one has the potential to work as long as its spring loaded, pinned on counterparts. Even if it has an abbreviated service life when compared to more modern designs, remove the firing pin plate with a ball point pen and you have instant access to the old extractor and you spend all of 2 seconds sliding a pretuned unit without specialized tools such as hammers and dedicated pin punches.

I wont bore you to death singing its praises anymore. Springfield RO, MC Operator, TRP. Colt XSE, Rail Gun, series 70, M45A1, Combat Unit. Any of those guns would serve you well, without having to peruse custom guns. There are still very solid production 1911s you just have to know where to look, and be willing to spend much more than what you would spends on a Glock. A Glock represents a tremendous value but I find that a lot of Glock guys display the same attitude as 1911 guys only they conceal it a bit better. They’ll tell you that you can run a Glock out of the box (despite the fact that there are many 1911s that routinely accomplish the same feat) but when you see their Glock it has Warren Tactical sights, front slide serrations, a grip plug, stippling on the grip, after market magazine release, new trigger connector and so on. They have a thousand dollar Glock but they keep regurgitating the “Glocks can be run out of the box” mantra.

Plain fact is that either gun will serve you quite well if you discover its nuances, run good mags and ammo and keep up with round count landmark maintenance. My preference would be the 1911.
 
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3/29/2016 4:15 PM
 
I also have a Colt M45A1 but I only have about 1000rnds through it. Its been splendidly reliable but I can speak to its long term reliability to the extent that I can with my Springfield. Its fit, function and engineering advances have catapulted the 1911 into modernity. Ive been in and out of it and it is built for sheer, bullheaded service longevity, and it worth every stinking penny.
 
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HomeHomeDiscussionsDiscussionsFirearms and Sk...Firearms and Sk...1911 or "just another" Glock?1911 or "just another" Glock?