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5/24/2016 10:10 AM
 

What started out as a facination for the AK that began after handling them overseas and seeing how even when welded and taped together they still functioned, combined with the availability of cheap 7.62x39 ammo has turned into a growing obsession. For me its one of the funnest guns to shoot and tinker with. Right now im still running a very base model but am seriously considering an upgrade. DDI, Krebs, JBI Armory, Saiga, WASR are all in the running but i thought id run it by you folks here as it seems a lot of you have the same mindset as I do when it comes to solid gear. I appreciate any feedback. Thanks.

-Noah

 
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5/24/2016 7:09 PM
 
I also admire the AK as a good piece of kit. I think if I had to grab one long gun knowing it would be abused and neglected (wading swamps, rolling around in sand, snow, mud, surf etc.) it would be the AK. This is especially true if there was little time to clean it and no access to spare parts etc. I think 7.62X39 is a better all-around caliber than 5.56x45

Now the cons - not nearly the options that an AR gives you with interchangeable uppers. Generally fewer optics mounting options. Harder to fire from the prone position due to long magazine. Ok irons sights but not as good as many Western rifles. Accuracy probably less than most ARs, though I've found it good enough. Though never tried self-inflicted gunsmithing on one, seems like it might take more specialized tools than on an AR. If the cheap import ammo dries up, rounds will be more expensive than 5.56.

And the big one for me - most people in the West instantly think terrorist/bad guy when they see an AK. If, unfortunately, I ever have to use a firearm in self-defense, I don't want everyone to look at the weapon and unconsciously think "terrorist gun" Most LEO in my area have ARs as patrol rifles so that goes along way to be able to say "good guy gun"

So where does that leave me re: AK? I will always try to have one. Good gun if abuse is in the equation like really dusty/dirty rides in a jeep or atv or bottom of a canoe etc. But due to the "terrorist" associations, mainly just a training piece. If travel overseas is in the future, being current with one may be good if you find yourself in the middle of a very bad situation and one presents itself as a "battlefield pick-up" to try to turn the tables on the bad guys.
 
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5/25/2016 4:29 PM
 
I like the AK a lot, but my preference for a low power variable is stronger. That is the reason that I moved away from the AK, and while I still carry one time to time it is not my main. I also have the same concerns about it being a bad guy gun.

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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5/25/2016 8:08 PM
 
Good point on the AK being the universal weapon of the enemies of freedom. My next one will have an American flare to it for sure, I'm thinking muzzle break, rail and red dot.

Since we are on foreign weapons. It looks like we (USA) may gain access to A1A M-10 which is basically the Australian version of the enfield from my understanding. These had parts produced in Vietnam and with the lifting of the arms embargo it looks like they may become accessible here. Looks like a scout mod just waiting to happen. Couple links to the info here.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/05/25/breaking-obama-removes-arms-embargo-in-vietnam-opening-way-for-civilian-imports/

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/25/aia-m-10-coming-to-eu-and-us/
 
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5/26/2016 1:29 PM
 
Not to thread hijack, but is that an M14 magazine I see on the 7.62x51 M10?
 
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5/26/2016 2:44 PM
 
Hmm,, i have no idea. looks very similar though
 
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5/27/2016 9:17 AM
 
I had one for a while and it was fun to shoot. Bought it off a guy I work with who needed the money, then sold it back to him later when he got squared away. After using one I wonder if a Ruger Mini-30 wouldn't suit me better.
 
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5/27/2016 9:57 AM
 
Ccombs, I looked very hard at the mini-30 for a while. It seemed a lot of guys were experiencing some serious accuracy issues after 3-4 rounds when the barrel heated up. Granted the AK isnt known for being super accurate but the reviews of the mini30 on this issue were enough to make me reconsider it. Which is too bad because the ruger mini-30 "tactical" model is a beautiful thing.
 
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5/27/2016 6:36 PM
 
Crewhead05, I wouldn't doubt they have that issue. I don't know how the newer Mini-14s are but I have one that is about 40 years old or better. Not a tack driver to say the least. Maybe if I happen onto a deal one day I will give it a shot any way.
 
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5/28/2016 3:08 PM
 
I actually prefer AK's over AR's......
 
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5/28/2016 3:42 PM
 
I've shot AK's a several times on an Army pop up range.  The 300m target was all but un-hittable, by SOTIC qualified shooters.  I'll stick with an AR.  Ammo are AR's has never been better.  If I wanted to deer hunt with an AR, I'd just get a 6.8 upper and call it good.
 
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5/28/2016 7:08 PM
 
It is like any firearm, ammunition, trigger, and sighting system. Sort those out and you sort out a lot.  I don't know anything about the setup that you were shooting, but I will put my AK up against any M4 style AR with a RDS.  My AK trigger is better than most ARs I have messed with. It has an Aimpoint Pro and a good rear sight, and I mostly run the Wolf OTM ammunition.  The myth that AKs won't shoot is based on clapped out guns with crappy triggers, crude sights, and crappy ammunition. Saddle an AR with those issues and it won't shoot either. Just like the myth that ARs can't be reliable, AKs aren't inaccurate. 

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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5/28/2016 9:20 PM
 
scothill wrote:
It is like any firearm, ammunition, trigger, and sighting system. Sort those out and you sort out a lot.  I don't know anything about the setup that you were shooting, but I will put my AK up against any M4 style AR with a RDS.  My AK trigger is better than most ARs I have messed with. It has an Aimpoint Pro and a good rear sight, and I mostly run the Wolf OTM ammunition.  The myth that AKs won't shoot is based on clapped out guns with crappy triggers, crude sights, and crappy ammunition. Saddle an AR with those issues and it won't shoot either. Just like the myth that ARs can't be reliable, AKs aren't inaccurate. 

 Sure, you can spend 2K on a AK and order "match" 762x39 ammo, and it'll be in the running with a $600 AR shooting PMC (2MOA).   The AK works, for sure, but a best buy it ain't any more.  Those days are gone.  Several trainers (Vickers for one) note that AK's are MUCH more problematic in their classes, these days, than AR's.  I'm not saying it can't be sorted out, just saying that it WILL take some sorting unless you spend Krebs or Rifle Dynamics moolah out the gate.

 

Edit:  If I HAD to have a "AK" it would say VZ58 on it, which of course, ain't an AK.  It just looks like one.  Then you're chasing oddball magazines.

 
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5/28/2016 10:02 PM
 
Mine cost 525 back in the day because I opted for the under folder. At that point, a Colt for comparison was around 1200. Prices have gone up on AKs and down on ARs so they are comparable in price for like quality. The Wolf ammo I use is about 30% or more cheaper than corresponding 5.56 ammunition, and it isn't special order just the bulk stuff most places carry. Having talked to Larry about this specific topic, the issue is how many poorly built franken AKs (home builds and garage gunsmiths) show up in the classes, when most folks in AR classes are running quality guns from a few companies. Not at all an apples to apples comparison. Yes AKs can be poorly built, but if everyone was showing up with 80% franken ARs just as many issues would show up. Like anything else knowledge is your friend and as in ARs there are AK brands to avoid and AK brands to choose. The idea you need a boutique AK to run well is ludicrous.

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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5/28/2016 11:06 PM
 

Before the wall came down, every guy on an SF ODA in Southern Bavaria was issued an AK in addition to an M16 or CAR.  We also had some Soviet MGs and other Soviet weapons.  On my team, we had the folding stock para-style AKMS.  They were heavy, uncomplicated, loud as Hell, and hard to break...but they were really not very accurate at all.  We trained with our AKs often, including marksmanship.  Targets that we could effectively engage with our US weapons were often missed when using our AKs.  3rd World countries and your average terrorist or insurgent love them because they can get them cheap and the learning curve is low.  They can spray and pray with them easily.  Conversely, we also trained with a good number of German weapons...HKs in various incarnations...and of course those were very accurate and reliable.  Although many AKs are able to be purchased for much less than ARs, I don't really care for them all that much.  We had them for operational reasons at the time.  I know that the modern, sexy, tricked-out versions today are quite a different animal than what I had, but I still much prefer ARs over AKs.  I don't need one for any kind of hunting...I've got that covered by 3 different calibers, and I don't need one for home defense.  For me, I'll stick with my AR.


Hill People Gear Coureurs des Bois (Brand Ambassador). Victoria faveat paratam. De Oppresso Liber.
 
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5/28/2016 11:28 PM
 
scothill wrote: Yes AKs can be poorly built, but if everyone was showing up with 80% franken ARs just as many issues would show up. Like anything else knowledge is your friend and as in ARs there are AK brands to avoid and AK brands to choose. 

 I believe differently.   Back in the day, junk AR parts were the norm.  Now you have to look hard to find bad AR parts.    Even a retard like me can put one together that will run.

 
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5/30/2016 11:24 AM
 
That's what he's saying Take-a-Knee.

And a big part of not being able to hit targets with an AK vs AR is that most of the military shooters spend ALOT more time running an AR platform vs. an AK platform. Throw in the crappy AK sights (great for close-up stuff, but they suck past 100 yards) and you are going to miss alot.

Put a red dot on that AK and suddenly you are in a much different game.

Also, nowadays you can get a rock solid AK for the $800-1,000 range...the same as you are going to spend on a Tier 1 AR.
 
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5/30/2016 2:39 PM
 
Evo8dude wrote:


Also, nowadays you can get a rock solid AK for the $800-1,000 range...the same as you are going to spend on a Tier 1 AR.

Enlighten me as to any models/eras you'd recommend, please.

 A friend says his AK will shoot that Hornaday AMAX AK ammo into a little over two MOA, so that is another option.

 
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5/30/2016 3:11 PM
 
Arsenal has been pretty much the standard go-to in AK's for awhile.

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/arsenal-slr107fr-31-762x39-side-folding-rifle-detail.html?Itemid=0

Century has a new line of American made AK's. I haven't been a fan of Century guns in the past, but this new line, especially the 2nd version, seems to be decent for an entry level gun. A friend of mine picked up one of the first ones below at a gun show for $700 out the door. They have had a few teething problems, but seem to be making them better. Personally if I'd get one (I'd get a different brand) then I'd learn what to look for and hand-pick one at a store. These DO have modern western spec nitrite lined barrels, so the accuracy should be better than your average AK.

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/cai-c39-v2-detail.html?Itemid=0

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/c39-v2-milled-ak-magpul-moe-ri2360-n-detail.html?Itemid=0

Destructive Devices brand isn't horrible either.

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/ddi-ak47-rifle-magpul-moe-detail.html?Itemid=0

Ok, this is the brand I'd get if I were getting another AK right now. They are basically custom built guns, similar in quality to Krebs and other $$$$ builders, but much cheaper.

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/definitive-arms-ak-47-dakm-4150-detail.html?Itemid=0

And then for shits and giggles, the new, reworked IWI Galil ACE. They fixed alot of problems with the AK. You can get a full sized one....OR, you can get one of the below - a pistol version, complete with a folding 'arm brace' 'stock'

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/iwi-galil-ace-sar-7-62x39-pistol-detail.html?Itemid=0
 
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5/30/2016 3:14 PM
 
Also....when these hit the states.....OHHHHHHhh yea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJs9s...
 
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