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4/8/2018 6:11 PM
 

Hey all- since my 5.56 GSR review was in hindight the lamest first post on a forum in history, I thought I'd try again:  What gun is your white whale?  

For me it's the 5" original model S&W 610 10mm.   I bought one new in 1992 and let it go a few years later.  I've been scanning used gun cases for the last twenty-five years waiting for another.

 

 
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4/8/2018 6:51 PM
 

Nothing terribly exotic, but I've been wanting a GP100 .357 for a long time. However, I definitely wanted a 3" barrel, which is a little harder to come by. Lots of 2.5" and 4.2" versions out there, not so many 3"s. Even better, the 3" that I found is the Wiley Clapp edition, which comes with Novak sights front and rear, and a sweet grip which I really like. It's my "holy grail" for a backcountry handgun. 

 
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4/8/2018 6:54 PM
 
Those are incredibly cool. Well done. Nice photo by the way.
 
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4/8/2018 9:17 PM
 
Agreed! Great photo. And a 3" .357 is a weapon to contend with.
 
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4/14/2018 7:11 PM
 
My personal grail gun was a nice condition, shootable Mauser C96 Broomhandle. I wanted one since I was a kid in the 70s, even before I saw Han Solo use one in Star Wars. I had a cast pot-metal toy Broomhandle that my dad had got in the 50s which started my obsession.

I found one in December 2016.




It is a Wartime Commerical made sometime between 1915 and 1917. When I looked it over at the gun show the bore looked to be quite good. After I got it home and ran a few patches through, it turned out to be mint.

I do shoot it, using Prvi Partizan 7.63 Mauser ammo. It's had a few hundred rounds through it in my hands without any issues. The only problem is that my 13 year old daughter really likes shooting it with the stock and is trying to claim it as her own. We should all have such problems. :)

Dave Markowitz
 
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4/15/2018 10:50 AM
 

Dave:  That's incredible.  I have never seen one in person, but I've been told the workmanship on those is perfection.  Is it difficult to maintain?

My 17 year old daughter is capable of consuming .38 Special ammo well beyond my budget.  Like you said it's a good problem to have.

 
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4/15/2018 2:42 PM
 
Congratulations! Sweet six-gun! I bought one of those 3” Wiley Clapp GP100 revolving pistols, shortly after Hurricane Harvey had caused me to have to work a tremendous amount of overtime. This one was pre-owned, but pristine, and someone with serious talent had bobbed the hammer spur. I cannot say this one was a long-term grail-quest gun, but it was a fortuitously-timed find, that helped ease just a bit of the heart-ache that THE storm did cause in our lives.

My personal grail-quest gun has, actually, been a moving target, prone to revision as time passes. Sometimes, I will get to handle an example of a firearm that had been so very desirable, only to find it a bit underwhelming. Another factor is that I am aging-out of the ability and desire to tote heavy rifles. A Shiloh Sharps may remain on my nice-to-have list, but is no longer a priority.

I did recently buy a nearly-pristine, pre-owned Les Baer Monolith, which had been on my to-do list for a while. Its additional weight, at the muzzle end, will make its recoil a bit easier on my aging right wrist.
 
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4/15/2018 4:22 PM
 
Aric wrote:

Dave:  That's incredible.  I have never seen one in person, but I've been told the workmanship on those is perfection.  Is it difficult to maintain?

...

It's not difficult to maintain at all. The ammo I shoot is non-corrosive, modern production, so just a few patches with solvent or a CLP through the bore is all that's required after a shooting session (100 - 200 rounds at most).

Takedown and reassembly do not require any tools. However, if reassembled incorrectly the mechanism will lock up and can only be released by drilling a hole in the receiver. You can be sure that I'm careful when I'm reassembling it.

Unusually for the time it was designed, there is only one screw in the gun -- the one that holds the grips in place.

The website http://www.1896mauser.com/ has very clear instructions on field stripping and reassembly. Overall, it's a fantastic resource for anyone interested in Broomhandles.

I save my brass. One of these days I plan to get a set of 7.63 Mauser loading dies and work up mild handloads with powder coated cast bullets.


Dave Markowitz
 
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4/15/2018 7:20 PM
 
I'd like to find my grandpa's Ruger No. 3 in .22 Hornet. He restocked it and replaced the action lever to look like a No. 1. He sold it in south central Ohio in the mid 90s. I keep an eye out for it in gun shops.

I also want one of the Lipsey's Ruger Bisleys in .44 Special.
 
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4/15/2018 9:47 PM
 
BobM wrote:
.....I also want one of the Lipsey's Ruger Bisleys in .44 Special.

 

Indeed. 

 
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4/16/2018 2:21 PM
 
That Broomhandle is pretty dang cool especially with the stock. I can't say as I have ever handled one, but they are neat.

I had to do some thinking about this as like Rex it seems like my grail is ever changing. I have been lucky enough to own a fair number of "grail" guns over the years, but it seams that I usually end up deciding that while they are prefect on paper the reality of daily use doesn't meet expectations. That may be because I went through a lot of grail revolvers before deciding that revolvers just aren't for me. Before I was done I owned Mountain Guns in 41 and 357, a 681 PC, a 657 4" from the first run, model 357 (scandium 41 mag) and model 58 and have ended up selling them all off.

When I was a kid my grails were an MP5 and Steyr SSG69. I own a turkish K and a 69 PIIK right now. The K is way more fun then it should be and I don't see it ever going anywhere. The Steyr is awesome, I just don't really ever have a need for a precision rifle. Even with a 20" barrel it seems overly long and heavy for my uses especially in comparison to other boltguns I own. I have not had it out of the safe other then to admire in a couple of years. I wonder if it is worth holding onto. There have been a few levers I have foolishly sold (Marlin Texan and 1892 44), but my 336y is a very good replacement for the Texan and I really like looks of the new threaded 92s.

For a lot of years my grail was a sub-7lb 308 autoloader. I am working the bugs out of an AR308 right now that is 6.5lbs bare, and honestly it is everything I had hoped so far, but I need to get it running right. Until it can spend some more time with my gunsmith it is kind of on hold. Basically, he needs to get after it with calipers and to swap in a different bcgs and pins to figure out where the gremlin is living. Once I have it fully rung out I will do a post, but suffice to say I hit the weight point, and from a carry standpoint it seems to be what I was hoping for, but it has to be reliable and accurate too.

My other adult grail gun is the perfect carry handgun. That has been more of a moving target since it is a collection of attributes, but I have yet to find the gun in the wild as there does not seem to be an actual model that is exactly what I want. I keep coming close, but no dice. Basically, I want a double stack, aluminum frame, 1911 that is reliable and sub 30oz empty chambered in either 9mm or 40 s&w. My Sig SAO Legion 226 is very close, but is heavier then I am looking for and I just like the more svelte slide of the 1911 for iwb. Over the course of a day the weight and bulk makes the difference. I think I might just have to settle for a single-stack 1911 and call it a day, but I am always looking and hoping to find the one. I also keep hoping that the 2011s of various flavors mature enough to be considered reliable.

I am a gun guy and I do get excited about various things, but really in the past few years it has been more about simplification and stuff that I can get good use out of more then anything else.

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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4/16/2018 3:14 PM
 
scothill wrote:
The Steyr is awesome, I just don't really ever have a need for a precision rifle. Even with a 20" barrel it seems overly long and heavy for my uses especially in comparison to other boltguns I own. I have not had it out of the safe other then to admire in a couple of years. I wonder if it is worth holding onto. There have been a few levers I have foolishly sold (Marlin Texan and 1892 44), but my 336y is a very good replacement for the Texan and I really like looks of the new threaded 92s.


My other adult grail gun is the perfect carry handgun. That has been more of a moving target since it is a collection of attributes, but I have yet to find the gun in the wild as there does not seem to be an actual model that is exactly what I want. I keep coming close, but no dice. Basically, I want a double stack, aluminum frame, 1911 that is reliable and sub 30oz empty chambered in either 9mm or 40 s&w. My Sig SAO Legion 226 is very close, but is heavier then I am looking for and I just like the more svelte slide of the 1911 for iwb. Over the course of a day the weight and bulk makes the difference. I think I might just have to settle for a single-stack 1911 and call it a day, but I am always looking and hoping to find the one. I also keep hoping that the 2011s of various flavors mature enough to be considered reliable.

I am a gun guy and I do get excited about various things, but really in the past few years it has been more about simplification and stuff that I can get good use out of more then anything else.
 
I do appreciate the desire for simplification, but pining over "lost levers" and contemplating selling the protypical modern sniper rifle (unless you were trading up for new) baffles me.
 
Get a Steyr Scout and you can have both portability and precision.  They still make that rifle in the "precision" format, with a heavier barrel.

 

 
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4/16/2018 3:15 PM
 

H&K SL7 with a dozen magazines

 
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4/16/2018 3:33 PM
 
I am not sure where you get pining from. I just bought twice in the case of the 30/30. The Texan was a smoother nicer action, and better quality, but the curved grip on the 336y is more ergonomic so there are trade offs. I would be money ahead, not a ton as I made money on the Texan, but still money ahead. Levers are my favorite action style. I now recoginze that and won't be without a trapper 30/30, it just took me a while to learn that lesson. As far as the 1892 it was a present that I re-gifted back to the original gifter several years later, so no money lost. I have no use really for a PC lever, unless it is suppressed, and then we are talking about something very different. At this point no rush, but down the road it might happen.

My issue is that I don't have a use for a sniper rifle. I agree the 69 was years ahead of the time with most of the features that folks are looking for now only available what almost 50 years ago? That is one of the things that has always drawn me to the rifle. However, I have yet to find anything for MY uses that I can do better with the 69 then I can with my Remington. The 69 has better glass, but that is it. If I was a sniper, precision shooting competitor, or even someone who regularly shot out to longer ranges then I could see it, but I am none of those things. I have trouble, outside of a precision rifle class, envisioning when I would grab that rifle over one of my other choices. Heck even if I was taking a precision rifle class I would be tempted to take the Remington as it is more likely to be the rifle I have with me hunting or in the back country. If it baffles you to contemplate selling a rifle I never use then I am not sure what to tell you.

Evan had a SL7 for awhile when he was a kid. To my way of thinking it is the rifle that came closest to my ideal rifle. I would love a modernized one (ergonomic safety, picatinny rail instead of the proprietary mount, and takes commonly available magazines), but at this point they are hard to find, have virtually no support if something needs replacement or repair, and expensive. I spent a lot of time trying to find one for a decent price with the mount and plenty of magazines, but finally gave up.

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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4/16/2018 4:02 PM
 
KAC Revolver Rifle. Or the Fix by Q in 6.5CM cut to 12.5" with an under hand guard suppressor that is hearing safe.

With a 2-16x FFP MOA Christmas tree reticle with center dot that is daylight visible...and a QD thermal that doesn't change POA/POI.

And a lifetime supply of spare barrels and 1/2moa ammo...

Talk is cheap...lets compare fur checks.
 
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4/16/2018 4:16 PM
 
I have a good friend who got a Fix recently, I guess I forgot to ask caliber, but so far he said it is the nicest rifle he has ever owned. This is a guy with a lot of nice rifles and experience with a ton more. It is a very intriguing rifle, that was built around the same concept as our practical rifles.

Will 6.5cm have a enough velocity in 12.5? I thought it needed a longer barrel to get better powder burn?

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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4/16/2018 5:27 PM
 
On a somewhat different note...

The single gun I would most like to have is the single-shot crack barrel that my grandfather used in the 1930's to procure meat for his family, often from sources that I suspect wouldn't be considered proper "game animals" today. His dad rode with Black Jack Pershing in pursuit of Pancho Villa, and due to being mustard gassed in WW1, spent most of his time laid up and unable to provide. My grandfather did for his mom and younger brother through some pretty lean years.

What kind of gun it was, is unknown, and at this point, un-knowable. He only spoke of that period a few times before he died. I remember being in gun stores and pawn shops in Appalachia as a kid, and they'd always have at least one old single shot, often with black electrical tape holding the wrist of the stock together. Who knows, maybe one of them could have been his.

I've thought of him living like that more often now that we are 5 years into slowly turning our acreage into a functional homestead. I especially remember that rifle when I see all the glossy advertisements for modern hunting rifles.
 
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4/16/2018 6:08 PM
 
Scot, no doubt the 6.5CM would be quite a bit faster in a 24" barrel. I would bet the velocity loss would be around 300fps from 24 to 12". It would still hang with the hottest 6.5 Grendels id bet. The real issue would be finding a can that would take the pressure and fit under the handguard. Staying in a small form factor and still keeping external ballistics better than the 308W would be neat. I guess a 12.5" 308W would get it done too.

I did a quick search and found this. Looks like about a 25fps per inch loss on average. It might be a bit more under 16" but I doubt it.
https://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/6-5-creedmoor-effect-of-barrel-length-on-velocity-cutting-up-a-creedmoor/

Compact, quiet, adjustable, good two stage trigger, sub 3/4moa consistency, "Estwing reliable", NF or better glass, and whatever load falls below 2000fps the farthest out. Hard use durability...not recreational quality. White whale and unicorn dust included.

Talk is cheap...lets compare fur checks.
 
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4/16/2018 6:16 PM
 

Wose, I think an NEF 18.5" single shot 12g shotgun with quality iron sights would be pretty close. Add a fist full of 8" sub caliber inserts in 22lr, 9mm, and 45ACP and you would be set. You could add a 223, 30/30, or 308W barrel if needed.

The sub caliber inserts in a 12g barrel are surprisingly quiet especially if you start with subsonic loads. Quiet enough you can hear the bullet spin down range. The 12g barrel acts like a big legal expansion chamber. It is hard to do quality work with just a front bead in my experience though.

Add all the duct tape and bailing wire you want.  It keeps it handy for other repairs...


Talk is cheap...lets compare fur checks.
 
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4/16/2018 7:31 PM
 

Probably a Krieghoff K-80 for sporting clays A Caesar Guerini Magnus Light in 20ga and also a Parker Fox in 16ga for upland bird.

 
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