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11/18/2012 11:02 AM
 

A .22 auto pistol isn't your first choice when expecting combat. If combat isn't your job, but you find yourself alone in a hostile environment, your job is to get back to “the world.” The purpose of a survival handgun gun carried by downed aircrew or clandestine operators is to neutralize immediate threats from contact range to 30 feet,  to facilitate escape. That is all.  In the words of Harry Archer, "If you stand and fight you'll never live to shoot them all."  The rapidity with which the .22 enables accurate, multiple hits, combined with low noise, muzzle flash and recoil, discreet profile and minimum weight and cube of "the package" mostly compensate for its lower kinetic energy.  Most important in supposed "stopping power" is knowledge of anatomy, precise shot placement and adequate penetration to penetrate a skull, defensively positioned arm or heavy winter clothing. In wartime use .22 LR solids passed the test. Expanding bullets of low energy frequently often fail to incapacitate, due to inadequate penetration.

world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/usa/hi-standard-hdm-silenced-e.html 

 

During WWII through the Cold War era  sport model Colt Woodsmans, and WWII-era High Standards were deemed the greatest natural pointers in the “Applegate method.”  

 

More about Col. Applegate:

 

 www.pdfport.com/view/291934-col-rex-applegate-s-presentation-to-police-firearms-trainers.html

 www.americancombatives.com/index.php  

 www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss

 

The user's attention is  "target focused," upon the threat, watching the bad guy's hands, evaluating whether he is friend or foe, being ready to either instantly disappear without notice, or to “shoot and scoot,”  always with emphasis on speed. We aren't talking "one-shot-stops" here, but precise double or triple tap head shots in two seconds or less. The gun is gripped convulsively and pointed "as naturally as if it was an extension of your finger." 

 

Israel's Mossad is popularly credited with originating the concept of using a silenced .22, www.tactical-life.com/online/tactical-weapons/israeli-mossad-22-lrs/  but they simply learned it from the British and improved the hardware.  During WWII Britain's SIS and SOE, were thoroughly trained in Fairbairn and Sykes (Shanghai Police) shooting methods. When the US entered WWII Rex Applegate became a student of Fairbairn and Sykes. He brought their techniques to Camp Richie, Maryland where they were adopted by the OSS. Applegate’s influence remained strong in the black ops community throughout the Cold War. The boys at "the farm" never accepted Cooper's so-called "modern" technique of the pistol other than as "good disinformation to have out there,” serving as a distraction  from what they knew worked. Having popular magazines reinforce its virtues was encouraged to reinforce the illusion in exactly the same way today that the canted “gangsta” grip is today.  Always remember that the cover story is published and that the truth is “protected by a bodyguard of lies.”   

 

Among Cold War clandestine operators Colt Woodsman's of any barrel length were greatly prized. High Standards of the WWII era shared the same favorable grip angle, could use Colt magazines and were more readily available.  Six inch and longer barrels provide longer sight radius which aids accurate shooting when the target is camp meat for the pot.   An expert pistol shot can bring small game to bag at 25 to 40 yards with ease.  A longer barrel increases velocity by 80-100 f.p.s., which improves hollow-point bullet performance noticeably for small game, but fragible bullets in a .22 are less effective for anti-personnel, game animals larger than a squirrel or rabbit or to penetrate a predator skull. 

 

Shorter 4-1/2” barrels were favored for missions where concealed carry was important.  A common carry method was muzzle-up, butt forward, with the hammer cocked and slide closed on an empty chamber.  The guns is retrieved quickly from the pocket as easily as your wallet, grasping the barrel behind the muzzle with thumb and forefinger of the left hand, grasping the butt  as the gun clears the coat, trigger finger extended, pointing, as the left hand sweeps the slide back against minimal resistance, against the cocked hammer ( these days called “Mossad style” ) deftly releasing the slide and chambering a round as the left arm assumes the protective folded position across the chest, freeing the right (gun hand) to rapidly trigger a protective burst of fire.   

 

An alternate carry method was the ancestor of today’s popular Desantis and Allesi pocket holsters.  Parachute riggers would sew a simple pancake design using a salvaged top cut off  an old pair of  jump boots, lining with fabric from an  OG 107 wool shirt or nylon parachute pack fabric ,usually  with two button tabs, commonly attached inside the flight suit or coat pocket with parachute cord loops sewn into the pocket.  When in Europe recently I was shown a holster of this type which had been used by a member of the French Resistance, sewn from an old felt hat, covered with tent canvas and using horn coat buttons to hold a FN 1992 Browning 7.65mm. 

 

6 inch and longer barrels are preferred for improved ballistics, reduced noise / flash signature and greater sight radius, which improves hit probability, but a longer pistol is harder to conceal.  A common method was to drop the gun butt-first into a bag of pomes frittes, or an improvised tote made from a folded newspaper tucked casually under the arm.  Jim Cirrillo of the NYPD stake-out unit used this method frequently to carry a .38 revolver or Browning Hipower on undercover assignments, substituting a box of Cracker Jack, movie popcorn or the New York Post.

 

My “ruck gun” is a High Standard B with 6-/7/8 barrel pistol inherited from my classmate the late Col. Gregory Kalinzky.  Less known from his resume are his times with flying with Air America, Air Zimbabwe, and as a bush pilot in Alaska. http://www.146thalumni.org/last_flight.htm  I received the pistol from Greg’s estate.    When I got it, it proved accurate and reliable, but was very thoroughly dirty.  Detailed disassembly and inspection revealed that at one time it had undergone complete saltwater immersion. It had been rinsed  promptly in fresh water, then probably doused in jet fuel, then VVL-800 preservative oil.  There was rust in crevices and blind holes, and brown residue under the grips and on concealed machined surfaces.  Exterior blue remains good, what you see in the picture when they put it up is original finish. After carding off the internal rust, installing replacement Wolfe springs, thorough cleaning, and reassembly, it now resides in my “SR” where it bangs an occasional grouse, or rabbit. but otherwise will remain cached there until my niece presents it to one of her kids when they are old enough someday.

 

My 4-1/2 inch Woodsman was one of Harry’s “spares.”   Harry was a big believer in redundancy and cached duplicates of essential equipment everywhere. When he died a fire marshall and EOD team swept the farm with metal detectors and ground penetrating radar. They dug up 12 well preserved guns which the realtor and I missed in our lower tech searches. I doubt that my Woodsman ever went on a mission, because it is way too clean. It’s a “parts gun” assembled on a pre-war 1940 frame with post war slide and barrel having adjustable sights.  Target sights lack the rugged durability I favor for a field gun.

 

 
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11/18/2012 5:10 PM
 

Very interesting.

I add this to your comments on the desirability of the Colt Woodsman.  I was stationed in the Fulda Gap during the Cold War.  It was (and probably still is) illegal for German civilians to own Luger (and probably other) pistols.  On several occassions I saw German civilians come in, and after a certain trust level was established, open up their coats to reveal several nice Lugers.  They were most often offered in trade straight across for a Colt Woodsman.

 

 
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11/20/2012 8:57 AM
 


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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12/28/2012 1:06 AM
 

One of my late uncles was the proverbial backwoods rifleman (the 20th century kind anyway).  He was the best shot in the county and had the best rifle in the county.  When he went off to the war they made him an M2 gunner and he lugged an M2 across France and Germany.  His sidearm had been a 1911a1.  He hated that pistol.  He said he once lost a loader because of it.  A German soldier with an MP40 got behind his gun and opened up on them from behind cover maybe 50 -75 yards away.  They couldn't reposition the M2 fast enough and my uncle's rather loose G.I. .45 wasn't accurate enough for him to hit the German before he killed my uncle's loader.  It wasn't that my uncle couldn't make the shot but his pistol wasn't accurate enough for him to hit the portion of the German that was exposed.  He told me "I'd have been better off with a Colt Buntline".  I've shot 1911s since I was in my middle teens and I remember one time explaining to him the kind of groups you could get out of a good commercial 1911 and he had a hard time believing it.  After the war, my uncle was a forester.  In some parts of the South there were some strange things going on in those piney woods.  In one area there was someone who would just follow him around at a distance moving when he moved and stopping when he stopped, never saying a word (who knows, maybe he was protecting his still).  There were other odd occurences too.  My uncle decided he needed something for protection and he bought a Colt Target Woodsman and he carried that when he felt like he needed a gun.  He shot it very well and he once told me that if he could get a rest he could shoot that pistol about as well as he could shoot his rifle.  For most people, I don't think a 22 is a great choice for a defensive handgun but for my uncle it wasn't a bad choice.  That pistol got quite a bit of use but it was still in nice shape when he died. 

 
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12/28/2012 2:34 PM
 
Thanks for sharing about your Uncle. He sounds like an interesting guy, and his experiences parallel those of other WW2 vets I have known. A 6" barrel target model Woodsman in the hands of a fine shot, can do about as well as a non-expert using an open-sighted. 22 sporting rifle of the "farm & utility" variety. We shoot at a steel groundhog about 4" wide and 12" high at 100 yards with revolvers and .22s of various flavors and find it about right as a training target. Plinker golf, shooting a driving range ball off a tee with a .22 is fun. Starting with pistol at 50 ft. or rifle at 50-yds. See how far you can drive it in 5 rounds.
 
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12/28/2012 5:06 PM
 

I am not a fan of the woodsman at all. In fact I gave mine to Evan. I dislike the grip angle, and find that the lightweight barrel is hard to hold steady.  I would take a 10/22 or browning buckmark any day of the week.

I do have to agree that unless you are an expert a .22 is a poor choice.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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12/29/2012 9:48 AM
 

scothill wrote - I am not a fan of the woodsman at all. .... I dislike the grip angle, and find that the lightweight barrel is hard to hold steady.  I would take a 10/22 or browning buckmark any day of the week. I do have to agree that unless you are an expert a .22 is a poor choice. 

Whether a Woodsman works for you is often a matter of how you were taught and the shooting technique which is natural for you.

The Match Target Woodsman had a full underlug barrel and was more muzzle heavy.  Later Woodsman's also have a different grip angle than the pre WW2 ones.  In my experience, most people, when taught Applegate-style, instinctive point technique, shoot low in low-light, unsighted fire with M1911 pistols and others with similar grip  angle.  

The solution is to pick a pistol which you shoot well and which inspires confidence.  The light "pencil" barrel sport model Woodsman is indeed a compromise, and ismore difficult to shoot "well."   A longer 6" barrel reduces muzzle lightness, gives a longer sight radius and improves ballistics and accuracy slightly. Use of a loop of parachute cord as a lanyard to apply isometric tension in firing position helps greatly when using a very light pistol and requires no attachment to the gun.  Simply tie the loop, pass it over your head, insert your shooting arm through the loop, hooking the thumb through the free end as your grasp the pistol, adjusting length to the degree of tension which works best for you.

In the days I carried a .22 handgun the most common expected use was small game for the pot. There were no two- or four- leggged predators around.  These days I am more concerned about personal defense against violent criminal actors, so I prefer to carry a 4 inch .38 Special service revolver loaded with  +P most of the time and full-charge handloaded wadcutters as extra ammunition which gives a good knockdown blow on game with much deeper penetration than hollowpoints..

If I were backpacking for several weeks in a remote area with few people and with good small game potential, I would probably opt again for the .22  due to the lower weight and cube of gun and ammunition. But you must evaluate choices based upon the specific situation.  A .22 IS a serious compromise and you give up stopping power for ease of carry, lower noise, reduced recoil and flash signature, etc.  

 
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12/29/2012 11:34 AM
 

Sold my second generation Woodsman to finance an AR. Looking back, it was a very wise choice. Not too many $900 DD M4s out there anymore. Anyway, my Woodsman was a finally crafted piece of machinery, but I much preferred my Buckmark for actual woods use, if only due to the fact that I would hate to beat up the Woodsman. Like Scot, I prefer the grip angle of the Buckmark. More 1911y. Have been giving serious thought to picking up a Tactical Solutions 4" barrel and their optics base/sight combo. If it would fit, I think that combo with a small RDS would be nice to pack in my Kit Bag for small game. It would never be the only gun I carried.

 
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12/29/2012 1:59 PM
 

You won't see me ever advocating point shooting, and I think that choosing a pistol based on point shooting is not a good idea. The one that I gave Evan was the 6" model, and while I could get plenty of accuracy out of it, I had to work hard to get it. I do have more small game kills on that pistol than any other .22 semis I have or have had. 


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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1/10/2013 3:40 PM
 

I have had very good luck with a Ruger MKII with both a Tacsol 4.5”(I think) and a Silencerco Sparrow suppressor.  I just had it rebuilt after probably 15k rounds.  I am well over the 100 critter mark taken with this rig in the last year or so. I use it for taking bait on the trapline, dispatching animals in traps, and culling feral canines doing ADC work. 

If you can tolerate the size of a quality dot sight it will take your pistol to a whole new threshold of usefulness, or it has for me. Softball sized targets in low light are very doable out to 40yds if you can do your part. Moving targets are MUCH easier to hit, especially in the field.   I have run an EO Tech and Matchdot Ultradot but would prefer a Trijicon RMO6. 
The CCI SHP (subsonic segmented HP’s) kill way out of proportion to their report. The Winchester HE 3/1 has also proven to be very reliable if the sonic crack is not a problem. Remington subsonic HP’s are dirty as sin but seen to kill a little quicker than the CCI subs.   CCI SV, Wolf match, or any lead round nose bullet can be flatpointed, or hollow pointed with a Neil Wartz die.  CCI Velocitors have also worked well when a little more penetration is needed.
Scot or Evan is any of this info is out of line please delete.

Talk is cheap...lets compare fur checks.
 
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1/10/2013 3:53 PM
 

www.usrsog.org  is a website made up of some us military survival instructors.

they wrote a survival manual called Six Ways in Tweleve Ways Out.

In it they talk about their love of the .22 pistol for wilderness evasion and survival.   Their main point is to ditch your rifle and just carry .22 pistol with red dot scope, knife and multitool.

They make a great case for the 22 pistol.  small, compact, light weight / low bulk ammo and the fact that it can one shot kill the vast majority of animals on the planet.

The book sells for $12 or used to.   Well worth the investment imho.

The only downside to .22 ammo is in the long term it doesn not do well when exposed to moisture.  May want to consider getting a watertight container with O-ring seal for ammo storage.

 
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1/10/2013 4:24 PM
 
I was acquainted with George Jasper's excellent book by instructor cadre at our county fire academy, who had attended SERE school and the book was recommended there. Both these guys had multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan when their NG unit was activated and they now serve on one of the FEMA urban search and rescue teams, having been deployed several times overseas to garden spots of the universe, such as Haiti, Indonesia, Japan and other exotic locales.
 
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1/11/2013 11:34 AM
 

 I've enjoyed this thread.  It has provided me a lot of food for thought.  The focus has been on auto pistols.  Are there viable revolvers that would fit the bill?  What are the advantages of an auto in the role being discussed here?

Thanks in advance.

 
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1/11/2013 12:00 PM
 

I have gotten pretty good with my little NAA 22lr. When I first got it I didnt think I was going to be able to hit anything with it. With a little work on the trigger and some pratice I can get rabbit/grouse out to 20 yards. I have been thinking of adding a rail to the top for a small RDS. It does not have the firepower or accuracy of the full size autos being talked about but it weighs only 10 oz's and can be stuffed in your sock.

 

 
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1/11/2013 12:04 PM
 

Hansford asked :

"Are there viable revolvers that would fit the bill?  What are the advantages of an auto in the role being discussed here?"

GOOD question!

Advantages of modern .22 autopistols over revolvers are: 

1.  They are more plentiful in the marketplace than revolvers, so that you have more choices

2.  They are usually less expensive (for a "good" one)

3.  Better suited for mounting optical sights (which can be REALLY problematic on a revolver!)

4. They tend to have longer barrels, which increase sight radius, which reduces sighting errors and improves both accuracy and ballistics

5.  They facilitiate rapid follow-up, repeat shots more easily.

6.  Available new, with warranty, spare  parts and factory service readily available.  (Older used revolvers could be a problem if they mechnical "issues.")

Among the currently available .22 rimfire revolvers, the one which I feel has the best potential for backpacking use is the Ruger Single Six, either in its .22 LR version, or the .22 WMR/.22LR convertible. Barrel bore and groove dimensions of convertible models are optimized for jacketed WMR ammunition. This means that you give up some accuracy, when using .22 LR ammunition in the appropriate cylinder, but most  produce about 2" groups at 25 yards with good ammo, which is adequate. 

If in the market for a ..22 revolver for the ruck I would get  a Ruger  stainless 5-1/2" barrel Single Six Convertible (.22 WMR with extra .22 LR cylinder) with adjustable sights. This combination is probably the best compromise between portability, ability to re-zero for different ammo and ballistics. Use the .22 LR cylinder for inexpensive practice and the .22 WMR cylinder with appropriate ammunition of that caliber for bush work. If you want lower-powered, lower noise ammo for the .22 WMR cylinder, seek out .22 Winchester Rimfire or "WRF" ammunition, which uses a .225" diameter, 45-grain flatnosed lead bullet, at about 1350 fps, in a slightly shorter case, of proper diameter to chamber safely in the WMR cylinder. The older .22 Winchester Auto Rimfire cartridge can also be used in the WMR like a "Short" if you can find any at gun shows. Do not use ordinary .22 LR ammunition in the WMR cylinder because cases will split!  That's why the  gun has two cylinders! 

It is difficult to find a .22 revolver which will be as accurate as a modern rimfire auto pistol. Most .22 revolvers currently sold don't do any better than 2 inch groups or so at 25 yards with good ammo. Some fail even to do that.  Proper timing, indexing and barrel-cylinder alignment are critical. So are a good crown, smooth forcing cone, and proper chamber dimensions.  Sometimes you get lucky, though.

The older .22 target revolvers of your Grandfather's day, the S&W K-22 and Colt Officer's Model Match if they index and time correctly, will do 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" at 25 yards, again with good ammo, such as CCI Subsonic HP, Eley Standard or CCI Green Tag standard velocity.  The Ruger Single Six will also do this!  Some lower priced .22 revolvers of years ago, such as the High Standard Sentinel, Double-Nine, H&R Sportsman and Iver  Johnson Sealed 8 can shoot 2 inch groups or less at 25 yards if they are tight  and index well. I have found that .22 revolvers shoot best with greased or waxed-bullet ammo. Plated ammo tends to cause forcing cone leading.

Modern bull barrel pistols with match ammo will shoot under inch 10-shot groups at 25 yards, with good ammo, when using a scope.

But if you like revolvers, there is no reason NOT to look for one for your ruck, if that is what you are used to. Shop carefully to find a used gun which they will let you test fire, make sure it goes bang! every time, hits where you aim it, and is adequate to hit saltine crackers at 25 yards. Repair parts and gunsmithing for older .22 revolvers can be troublesome.  Buy one in good mechanical condition that "works" and you will like it. OR you could buy a new Ruger Stainless Single Six Convertible....

 
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1/11/2013 3:16 PM
 

QUOTE]WEG wrote - I have.... gotten my little NAA 22lr..... With a little work on the trigger and some practice I can get rabbit/grouse out to 20 yards.... It does not have the firepower or accuracy of the full size autos being talked about but it weighs only 10 oz's and can be stuffed in your sock. 

[/QUOTE]

When I lived in New Hampshire in the 1980s I carried a little Ruger Bearcat.  It was about 20 ozs. I had to play with it to get it to shoot to the sights, as the fixed ones were "off" but I was lucky and worked at the factory and was able to fix it myself.   I found the tiny gun difficult to shoot well, and sold it to a trapper.  But as you say, it is tiny and easy to take along.  In the ultra-light back-packer  scenario any gun is better than no gun.   Here in WV I know a trapper who carries a Keltec .32 Auto on his trapline and he likes it alot.   Says that flatnosed, 80-gr. cast bullet reloads are more sure killers on coyotes and bobcats than a .22 LR. I think I'd believe him....

 
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1/12/2013 11:08 AM
 

Then entire time I was a kid my Grandmother kept a Bearcat in her going to the country box, which was the box that rode on the set next to her whenever she went to the country. I guess in modern parlance it was her go box. Being a kid who wanted to be a cowboy, or at least about 1/2 the time that was my goal, I thought it was the coolest thing ever a kids sized single action. The last time I shot it I was growed and my hands didnt fit it so well kind of like a j frame.  However, one would make a heck of a compact little .22.  If I was looking at for a revovler I would check out a Ruger Single-Six (or 9 or 10) depending on generation.  However, what I would prefer or be looking for instead would be a S&W mdl 18 (I think that is the one). Basically, a double action adjustable sighted .22lr. That was the pistol I really shot the most as a kid. I have no clue how many bricks I shot thorugh one. I have always wanted to pick one up since, but they cost a pretty penny.  Ruger has also made their sp101 in .22lr and .22mag a few times, it would be heavier, but rock solid.

All that being said I have found that a 22/45 with tacsol upper is lighters, easier to shoot more accurately than a revovler, and as someone mentioned above you can suppress one.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
New Post
1/12/2013 11:42 AM
 

scothill wrote - Then entire time I was a kid my Grandmother kept a Bearcat in her going to the country box.... Being a kid who wanted to be a cowboy.... I thought it was the coolest thing ever a kids sized single action....last time I shot it....my hands didnt fit it so well kind of like a j frame....would make a heck of a compact little .22.  If I was looking for a revovler I would check out a Ruger Single-Six (or 9 or 10) depending on generation.  However, what I would prefer....would be a S&W mdl 18 (K-22). Basically, a double action adjustable sighted .22lr....but they cost a pretty penny.  Ruger has also made their sp101 in .22lr and .22mag a few times, it would be heavier, but rock solid. All that being said I have found that a 22/45 with tacsol upper is lighters, easier to shoot more accurately than a revovler, and as someone mentioned above you can suppress one. 

Good, solid info.  I found the K-22 more accurate than the J-frame "Kit Guns,"  of which I've owned several.  The Model 18 Combat Masterpiece with 4" barrel and Baughman ramp front sight was very commonly used as a preliminary marksmanship trainer at police academies across the country. 

www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766204_-1_757903_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

The same basic gun with 6-inch barrel, target hammer and target trigger with Patridge front sight was the bullseye target gun.  Both K-22 variants are fine .22s if you can find one. They are pricey these days. Occasionally you can find a Colt Cobra 3" barrel in .22 LR. I have one of those. It weighs about the same and shoots about as well as my Bearcat did.  I prefer DA revolvers to single-actions, so it was a natural replacement which fit my hand better  than the J-frame Kit Gun. Occasionally you may find a .22 LR Colt Official Police academy trainer, but being an all-steel, full-sized service revolver with tiny .22 holes it it, you either need to install wheels or have a packhouse to carry it, att over 40 ozs~!  

The S&W Model 34 .22 Kit Gun was the steel frame 2" or 4" .22 LR, Model 43 was the Airweight 3-1/2" .22 LR, the Model 51 was the 3-1/2" .22 WMR, the Model 63was the Stainless 3-1/2" .22 WMR. smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1961-1980/131981-s-w-kit-guns-models-34-63-22lr.html 

See also: xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2006/08/smith-wesson-model-34-1-2232-kit-gun.html

None of several S&W Kit Guns I owned over the years would do any better than 2-1/2 to 3" at 25 yards, whereas the Ruger Bearcat, sandbagged with Eley Standard or Subsonic HP was a solid 2-inch gun, and my 3" Colt Cobra is also with greased Eley or RWS ammo or waxed CCI Subsonic HP.

Agree also that the current Ruger Single-8 .22 WMR/Convertible, or the Single-Ten .22 LR would have great possibilities....  www.ruger.com/products/newModelSingleSix/index.html

More holes in the cylinder means an ounce or two less weight and a couple more rounds ready before reloading.  What is not to like? 

 

 
New Post
1/12/2013 3:46 PM
 

Just in case someone were to misread the above, the Model 63 is a 22LR. At least the two I own are!

I have always had a thing for the Bearcat and came close to buying one of the older alloy frames a couple of times but haven't yet.

 
New Post
1/12/2013 7:47 PM
 
vaspence wrote

Just in case someone were to misread the above, the Model 63 is a 22LR. At least the two I own are!

I have always had a thing for the Bearcat and came close to buying one of the older alloy frames a couple of times but haven't yet.

Thanks for the correction. IIRC the stainless. 22WMR was the Model 61, but it is dangerous to trust tto memory after age 60!
 
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