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1/26/2014 4:53 PM
 

 Friends,

 

I was cruising the forum and saw the very nice looking Marlin 336 that had been given a facelift. It reminded me of my own 30-30. Mine is also a Model 336. My particular 30-30 wears a nice and compact 16" barrel. Paired with the Weaver 1-3x variable (which just stays on 3x) compact scope, it makes for a handy and relatively light package.

With all that said, I rarely shoot the thing. The reason why is because I live in the rural West, Idaho specifically. Ranges tend to be long, so if I am packing a long gun, I normally pack a lightweight AR or my Tikka T3 .308 that I had cut back to 20"s. I often see targets of opportunity, such as coyotes when out and feel that I am better of with a short precise bolt gun or AR.

 

What are your guy's thoughts on this? Lever gun a handicap?

 

 
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1/26/2014 9:44 PM
 

 I just got a winchester model 70 in .270 winchester circa 1953 super clean, iron sights 24" barrel, but as much as this is a nice rifle, i regret selling my 30-30, i live in generally open country and have never felt undergunned with that 30-30, as far as handling the lever winds hands down, it is compact, much lighter and quicker to aim, but as far as accuracy goes my bolt action i have now is much more accurate, I still will probably get a lever action i think the trade offs are better for it because i never really have come into a cercumstance were i absolutely couldnt get within 200 yards of what i was hunting or shooting. But i also have never hunted coyote.

id say its what ever you feel you need more, that extra range and power but it comes with extra weight or a lighter handier package, minus some range and accuracy perhaps.

 

 
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1/26/2014 9:46 PM
 

 Sounds like for your use it's a bit of a handicap. Here in Western Pennsylvania The longest shot i've ever had on a deer was 150 yards give or take. Closest I've had (only thinking about rifle hunting) was about 15 feet. For my use a lever action is pretty much ideal. 

To be fair, while you're huffing and puffing around in the rocky mountian, I'm crawling in and around this:

 

Not my images, found through google. 

 
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1/27/2014 12:36 PM
 

Levergun can place rounds on target much quicker and more easily than a bolt action. In the very unlikely event of needing to use your long arm for social uses, the bolt action is kind of handicapped over a levergun.

I much prefer a lever action to any other type for carrying on the side of a pack. In general, lever actions are also going to beat out the the other two action types in terms of weight. So, if everything else was equal it would always be a lever action I took backpacking. Mostly I only carry a pistol backpacking. Even 5lbs is a lot extra if you're not going to make use of it.

Beyond those things, I think it has a lot to do with your ability to estimate range on the fly. With lever action calibers, the difference between 150 and 200 yards is significant. With flatter shooting bolt action or AR calibers, you've got a lot more built in tolerance for poor range estimation.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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1/27/2014 3:05 PM
 

GPR’s…a subject dear to my heart!

What are your accuracy requirements?   How serious do you take your coyote killing? 
The others have made excellent points especially on big game. My back ground is a little thin on that end.   The lever guns are sure nice to pack!
This is my 2-cents from a GPR, coyote/predator, ADC rifle standpoint. I take between 50 and 100 coyotes, predators, and feral animals a year in the southwest by “any means necessary.” My working rifle sees hundreds of miles of hard 4-wheeling, spills, falls, and neglect in a year. I need a rifle that will shoot sub MOA out to 400yds day-in and day-out. It also has to hold zero and be bombproof. I have tried a mess of actions, cartridges, scopes, and have found most wanting. I am currently running a 16” AR tuned by Wes Grant at MTSN with Swarovski glass. It is a sub MOA gun out to 400yds. It kills just as well at 400yds as it does at 4yds.  For a GPR out to 400yds and under 300lbs it serves my needs well. Not the sleekest setup out there but it kills well for me. Again just my 2-cents.   

Talk is cheap...lets compare fur checks.
 
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1/27/2014 5:15 PM
 

Given as a .30-30 lever action is my only rifle, I can only comment on that.  For my uses and ranges in a much more "close" forest environment, it fits the bill.  I do, however, at times wish that I had a more powerful / long range calibur on occasion....not often, but occasionally.

 
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1/27/2014 5:16 PM
 

The eternal quandry, and I wish I could be of more help. I am in the process of mounting a T1 on both a 357 lever gun and my lightest most compact bolt gun, and we just put a 2.5x scout scope on a 357 lever gun.  I already have the LW AR with a low power variable.  I reckon that will give us all of the best packages to mess with. My plan is to typically have another scope in the pack for the bolt gun so if I need to shoot farther I have that capability.  I will be interested to see where things end up.  I/we decided to go with the 357, because while you are giving up 25 or yards of range you get twice the capactiy, and spare ammunition is compact and lightweight.  Of course none of these are dedicated coyote guns, but they will be my rolling rifles.  Like Evan I typically carry a handgun more than another.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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1/27/2014 7:19 PM
 

Not to drift the thread…but Scot mentioned it…so it’s his fault.

I used a dot sighted suppressed 22lr pistol for quite a bit of ADC work a few seasons ago and was amazed at how it extended the practical range of a handgun. Offhand in a field setting I would put a dot sighted pistol up against an iron sighted rifle out to 50yds all day long. You don’t have the whomp-em that the rifle does but if you shoot them where they live they don’t usually go far.  For me the 9mm pistol shooting 147 Gold dots or 147TMJ has left a blood trail on par with the sub 30cal rifles I have used.  YMMV.

Talk is cheap...lets compare fur checks.
 
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1/27/2014 7:42 PM
 

 I too live in sagebrush country, I cant really say I pack a rifle or pistol more often but I've about always got a gun close by. I like how easy a lever gun is to pack but to get the power of a .308 the lever gun is going to weigh about the same as the bolt gun. My GSR is my go to gun these days, I'd have a higher hit percentage if I had glass on it but I don't want the weight. I've been thinking about a .30-30 but even will the reduction in weight and the slimmer profile I dont believe I'd take it out that often. The bolt gun to me isn't awkward and the pound or so extra isn't an issue either. But to be fair most of my outdoor time is ranching, if I was living out of a ruck weight would be more of a concern.

 
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1/27/2014 8:26 PM
 
I too live in Idaho, but in the Pannhandle. Its about as opposite from open sage country as one can be, and leverguns work quite well in many circumstances. I am left Perhaps the best option is to get an Browning BLR takedown in 308. Purchase 5-6 extra mags and an case like the 10/22 takedown comes with. Portability and ballistic capability with an levergun. Now Evan is probably the only one cool enough to pull this off, but if he grew his hair out longer and carried an takedown BLR say in an cheap ukelele case he could really fly under the radar and from a distance would pass for Eddie Vedder. Sorry Evan, but I thought it was an cool way fly umder the wire.
 
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1/28/2014 10:32 AM
 

Lol, so we are also experimenting with a RDS on a 22/45. To be honest I am not a fan, but I will be doing some more work with it.  Probably my biggest shooting scar is trying to fight my wobble zone.  The RDS on a pistol exacerbates the wobble zone, and it really bugs me.  I also need to shoot one side by side with irons to see what I really think of it. That being said we had it and the 357 with a 2.5 leupold on it.  At 25 and 50 yds with the pistol I was hitting minute of bunny body, and with the rifle and magnification minute of bunny head. I then turned around with the rifle and was able to hit a ~12" rock at 200yds from kneeling.  I am not sure that mangification doesn't bring a lot to the table. The 357 lever gun with 2.5 weights the same as Evan's Mauser without scope.  Capability is not just caliber and range, but also the ability to hit. 

PC, I had a BLR for awhile, but it was before I had an understanding LOP.  The BLR comes with an, in my opinion, absurdly long LOP.  I got rid of it before I learned that, but since I figured out LOP I have been thinking/talking about getting another cutting both ends and seeing how it works. I do dislike the low capacity, but it is only one less than a trapper in 30/30.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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1/28/2014 3:30 PM
 

Funny OPC - I think you missed out on my attempt to grow my hair long again a year or so ago. I got it back down to shoulder length but it seems to be even frizzier than back when I had it long before. Just too much of a PITA to mess with this time around.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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7/19/2014 7:17 PM
 
posted for Mackay-Sagebrush:

I have enjoyed the 20" Tikka T3 so much that I've been considering building another. This one would be a shade over 16"s and threaded for a muzzle brake or suppressor. Glass would likely be in roughly the same range. 2.5-10, 2-7, or maybe a fixed 6x with ballistic reticle to match a chosen load.



As much as I enjoy handling a short barreled lever gun, I shoot the bolts a lot more in my terrain.

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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7/19/2014 7:17 PM
 
posted for HawkCreek:

I live in the sagebrush also (but I'm in Washington). I agree, a short bolt gun works best for my uses. I like the Ruger GSR as well as the discontinued Frontier, they are short and handy but have just as much range and power as my "full size" rifles. A lever certainly is easier and most likely lighter to pack all day though.

I've read about cut down Tikkas on other forums. I keep thinking it's a project I'd like to try as well just havent gotten around to it yet, to many other projects going on.

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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7/20/2014 11:54 AM
 
posted fro cch:

I have a Wonchester Trapper .30-30 for my jeep gun and am giving serious thought to swapping it out for a Ruger American Predator in .308. My rationale is that I won't feel nearly so bad about a stolen Ruger American, I do more shooting with bolt actions, it will eliminate one more caliber to stock and will serve back up duty to my .308 hunting rifle. While the lever is more trim, it's not so much once scoped (mine can't be scoped though, which is another issue.) The lever action is potentially faster, but as I have much more experience with bolt guns, I doubt that's true for me. I think the better ability to hit using a cartridge with longer range is going to beat out "trim" for me.

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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7/22/2014 5:59 AM
 
posted for Take-a-Knee:

I too am seriously considering the Ruger American Compact SS in 308. With that 70 bolt-throw I don't believe a lever would offer a faster follow-up shot either. It appears to be nearly a pound lighter than my 30/30 Marlin Trapper. The trapper is likely going down the road. IMO, lever guns make more sense in short, straight-walled cartridges, IE 357, 44mag, 45/70

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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7/22/2014 6:00 AM
 
posted for husky390:

Have you looked at the Browning BLR?

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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7/22/2014 6:03 AM
 
I just heard that CZ is changing the twist for their 527 carbine to 1/9. I still think that it has a lot going for it feature wise, but have never gotten one due to the twist. I will have to do some thinking now. Basically, you would have something lighter than a 30/30 and almost as compact, with DMs, and in a caliber that wouldn't beat you up.

The failure point on the BLR is the length of pull from the factory, which is way to long, and the magazines capacity. I have talked to a couple of smiths about making higher capacity magazines, but none have been super interested. Said sure I can do it, but let me get back to you, and they never got back to me.

Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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7/24/2014 1:01 PM
 

Since we're on the subject, I was just looking in to this further, and discovered that the Ruger American .223 has a 1:8 twist. A buddy at work told me about great his experience with a .308 model. They can be had for under $400 out the door, which leaves a lot left over for optics, or even mounting irons compared to it's nearest competitors feature wise. The only production .223s I've found with a 1:9 or better twist are this, the CZ, the Savage Hog Hunter and the Mossy MVP. I like the idea of the MVP, but the flippy thing on the bolt still makes me antsy. The CZs availability is questionable in the new twist, but it is the lightest of the ones mentioned. The Savage has been the front runner for a while, but I really wanted a shorter barrel than 20". The Ruger is 22", but at $400 I could certainly afford to chop it and add irons while still being competitive with the Savage. 

After all this consideration, I think a 1:9 CZ is still the winner for a lightweight 223 rifle for me. Should be plenty for 150 yards on white tail with appropriate ammo. Pennsylvania has a mentor hunting program, and children of any age can now hunt along with an adult. This would make an excellent medium game rifle for her. And I like it too :)

 
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7/24/2014 2:40 PM
 
The Ruger comes in a compact version with 18" barrel. The stock is shorter as well, but that would suit your idea of a mentor rifle. Just saw two compacts in .223 at the Cabela's near me on clearance for $330. Didn't know about the twist. Much more intriguing concept for the truck gun now. Just not a big game gun in Colorado.
 
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HomeHomeDiscussionsDiscussionsFirearms and Sk...Firearms and Sk...Practicality of a short bbl lever gun vs carbine length bolt action.Practicality of a short bbl lever gun vs carbine length bolt action.