Hill People Gear Forums
HomeHomeDiscussionsDiscussionsHPGHPGattaching compression panelattaching compression panel
Previous
 
Next
New Post
7/20/2013 1:02 PM
 

 I have a cm25 and terrapocket I will be using on a kifaru bikini frame.

 

Looking at the various attachment methods I am thinking for my uses a itw slotted ladder lock for the side and bottom straps would simplify the compression system.  I could attach the ladderlock to the frame and then to the tab on the terrapocket and buckles would not be required.  Webbing strap would cinch between the ladder locks.

 

Why do people prefer repair buckles over slotted ladder locks do they hold tension better? For side and bottom straps I can't see a need to remove them very often.

 

To use the compression panel to haul an elk quarter, is it okay to just attach the compression/cinch straps to the sides of the panel at the tabs?  I see most folks rig it with a strap across the whole panel with a buckle.  Is this needed for strength with 100# plus loads or is the panel attached at the side straps strong enough?

 
New Post
7/20/2013 7:29 PM
 

Seand wrote

I see most folks rig it with a strap across the whole panel with a buckle.

 

Where do you see this?

 
New Post
7/20/2013 8:17 PM
 

http://www.hillpeoplegear.com/Products/tabid/762/ctl/ProductDetails/mid/1916/ProductID/98/Default.aspx

 
New Post
7/21/2013 9:54 AM
 

Sean, the center buckle setups you see are our pulley style compression which first came out on the Ute. Here is a diagram of how it works:

Here is what we accomplish with this setup:

  • 2:1 mechanical advantage on tightening that strap
  • having a single Side Release (SR) buckle in center allows the compression panel to be snugged all the way down to the frame with no excess play on either side. At 1.25" wide, G-hooks are the narrowest attachment element available (other than slik clips which aren't strong enough for this application). This means that total width of the whole system is compression panel width plus 2.5". Most of our compression panels are 9" wide. That means total width is 11.5" wide. The Ute is 12" wide. The Umlindi is 11" wide. See what is going on there? You can completely suck the compression panel to the frame using this setup
  • Same strap system protects the zipper that is found on most of our compression panels without extra rigging or anything
  • Between SR buckle and G-hooks, you can completely undo compression strap without unthreading anything
  • SR buckle, which can't hold tension if it is on a corner, stays in the center where it holds tension well
  • You can quickly throw stuff under the center straps, like snowshoes or a jacket.

So, that's why things look the way they do in our system. On a side note, the Ute and Umlindi are both designed so that the back part of the pack functions as a compression panel if you're not using a compression panel. That's why there are vertical seams there with tabs sewn and bartacked into the seam. Same exact construction as our separately available compression panels (Tarahumara, Tarapocket, Palspocket, Highlander). There are no strength issues with our compression panels. All of the tabs are stitched into the seam, double stitched when the internal edge binding gets added, and then bartacked through the seam and edge binding for maximum strength. The load is then dissipated along the entire length of the seam as well. A buckle will fail before a compression panel tab does.

In answer to your question, slotted ladderlocks are just as strong as SR buckles, and hold tension better across a corner. They also weigh little and are low profile. The only downside to them is that they're not quick release. They're also .5" longer than G-hooks, so you'd have an overall width of 12.5". I don't know the width of the bikini frame, but I'm pretty sure 12.5" precludes cinching it flush. Heck, 11.5" may preclude cinching it flush. If you want to set up what you're talking about. we can sell you straps that have the metal slider on one end and a turned edge on the other. You can loop the metal slider end around your frame and then use a slotted ladderlock on the compression panel to tie into. I'll get those inventoried and available for sale next to the other straps tomorrow. Supply Captain is the go-to retail source for all of the other ITW products.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
New Post
7/21/2013 11:40 PM
 

 Thank you!  That explains it perfectly!  I see the advantage.

 
New Post
7/25/2013 12:38 PM
 

Ok. I just spent some time rigging up a setup for a customer. I know a lot of guys over on Rokslide are getting this setup for Duplex or Bikini frames, so I thought I'd be more clear about what you need in various cases. Top and bottom straps are the same regardless, and each one can be looped around a tubular frame as well. As for the horizontals, there are some variations:

  • Duplex Frame with Tarapocket, Tarahumara, or Palspocket - Neither the Gen 1 nor Gen 2 Duplex frames come with side perimeter tie-off points with the exception of the cargo chair triangles. In order to have tie off points on the perimeter, you will have to use one of our 25M pack bags. They are designed with tie off points on the suspension side of the frame to compensate for frames that don't have perimeter tie offs. However, neither our bags nor horizontal straps come with hardware to create the actual pulley point as shown in the diagram above, so you'll need additional hardware for that. You have two options. You can either use G-hooks into the loops provided on the 25M bag, or you can use plastic looplocks on those same straps. The G-hook setup is stronger, heavier, and more expensive. I would definately recommend it for the S25M (silnylon) bag so you're not at all relying on sil for structural integrity. For the C25M (cordura), the plastic looplocs are a viable option. So, to get the pulley compression setup depicted above going, you'll need the following:
    • (1) pair top straps
    • (1) pair bottom straps
    • (2) each horizontal straps
    • (4) each either G-hooks or Looplocs
    • (1) Tarapocket, Tarahumara, or Palspocket
    • (1) each 25M
  • Duplex Frame With Highlander - In this case, you're going with a taller compression panel which will have you wanting a third horizontal pulley strap. For this third point, you're going to be tying into the cargo chair triangle for the middle strap. Hopefully you've got a G1 frame where the cargo chair triangle is sewn to the perimeter of the frame instead of an inch or so inboard. If you've got a G2, you'll just have to make do. Here's what you need for this setup:
    • (1) pair top straps
    • (1) pair bottom straps
    • (3) each horizontal straps
    • Either (4) each G-hooks or Looplocs OR salvage the G-hooks off of the small straps that come with the Highlander. You'll have to cut the straps to do this, but you won't need those small straps if you have our new horizontal compression straps
    • (1) each Highlander
    • (1) each 25M
  • Bikini Frame with Tarapocket, Tarahumara, Palspocket - The Bikini frame can function more like a conventional tubular frame. I haven't tested this myself, but you should be able to loop the horizontal strap around the frame itself for the pulley point as shown in the diagram above rather than using those built into the 25M bags. That also means that you don't need one of the 25M bags at all if you don't want one. Here's what you need for this setup:
    • (1) pair top straps
    • (1) pair bottom straps
    • (2) each horizontal straps
    • (1) each Tarapocket, Tarahumara, or Palspocket
  • Bikini Frame with Highlander - This is as described above, you just need the third horizontal:
    • (1) pair top straps
    • (1) pair bottom straps
    • (3) each horizontal straps
    • (1) each Highlander

Hope that helps. Any questions, fire away. Anybody from Rokslide, feel free to point guys from over there to this thread for further explanation. Thanks.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
New Post
7/25/2013 4:30 PM
 

evanhill wrote. You have two options. You can either use G-hooks into the loops provided on the 25M bag, or you can use plastic looplocks on those same straps. The G-hook setup is stronger, heavier, and more expensive. I would definately recommend it for the S25M (silnylon) bag so you're not at all relying on sil for structural integrity. For the C25M (cordura), the plastic looplocs are a viable option. So, to get the pulley compression setup depicted above going, you'll need the following:

 

I'm clueless as to what a G-hook is and a plastic looploc as well.

 
New Post
7/25/2013 6:42 PM
 

metal G-hook:

Plastic Looploc


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
New Post
7/27/2013 10:23 PM
 

 how do you attach a looploc to the webbing tabs?  if you hotknife/cut it like a split bar will it be strong enough?  Im using split bar ladder locks now as the pulley point because i can add them easily to the webbing tabs.  If you just run the strap through one of the slots instead of two it works smoothly like a looplock would, but its quite a bit longer so the terrapocket doesnt cinch up as tight.

 
New Post
7/28/2013 11:44 AM
 

You wouldn't attach a looploc to the webbing tabs on the Tarapocket. I'm talking about putting an uncut looploc around the strap that attaches the packbag to the frame. The Looploc rides out to the place where the strap is sewn into the seam of the packbag and pulls against that joint when you use it as a pulley.

Split bar ladderlocks are also a great choice. Sturdy and easy to attach. I have cut looplocs to make "repair" looplocs. Haven't had one break, but I'm still leery of the practice.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
New Post
8/22/2013 2:01 PM
 

Evan,

If I wanted to attach one of the C25M bags to a Kifaru Bikini frame, what would be needed?  Any straps?  Or will the C25M attach directly?

I saw the post where you described different setups (above), but wasn't sure if that applied to the C25M bag.

I want to place an order for one of the bags today and just want to make sure I'm ordering everything I need  :)

 
New Post
8/22/2013 4:12 PM
 

Ironman8 wrote

Evan,

If I wanted to attach one of the C25M bags to a Kifaru Bikini frame, what would be needed?  Any straps?  Or will the C25M attach directly?

I saw the post where you described different setups (above), but wasn't sure if that applied to the C25M bag.

I want to place an order for one of the bags today and just want to make sure I'm ordering everything I need  :)

If you only want to use the pack bag without a compression panel, I would go with the following:

  • (1) C25M
  • (3) each horizontal compression straps

We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
New Post
8/23/2013 5:37 PM
 

Thanks for the reply Evan. 

I was reading a couple threads trying to find some pics of this setup and found a post by Joe stating that nothing was needed to attach a S25M to a Kifaru frame.  Is there something different on the C25M (vs. the S25M) that requires (3) horizontal compression straps?

(I may be going for the S25M anyways and possibly a Tara/Highlander as a compression panel down the road...so I may just get the straps now regardless.)

One more question about the S25M...how durable is it?  I'm the type that uses but not abuses my gear.  I take care of making sure I'm not unnecessarily hard on my stuff...that said, I want to make sure that if I slip and fall on my pack I won't necessary rip a big hole in it...

Is it the same material as the Kifaru KU line?

.....Sorry that was two questions :)

 
New Post
8/23/2013 6:26 PM
 

No, that's right. The S25M and C25M go on a Kifaru frame without needing any additional attachment. It's really meant to be used with some kind of compression straps though. I wasn't thinking about someone not using compression at all.

The material is a little tougher than the KU line, but not by much. It will still take a hole a lot easier than 500d. From what I've seen the holes are stopped pretty nicely by the ripstop pattern. They stay small. I've got one on an S25M that is a little smaller than a dime. I have no idea how it got there.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
New Post
8/23/2013 6:36 PM
 

Ok I understand now, thanks.  I'll probably go with the compression straps anyway in order to cinch it down and/or add "volume" to the system.  Also, I thought I saw in one of the pics that your water bottle holster will attach to the strap, correct?

I plan to use the S25M for backpacking, and eventually get one of the Kifaru packs for backpack hunting....unless you guys come out with something in the 6000ci range? ;)

 
New Post
8/23/2013 6:43 PM
 

No, our water bottle holsters only go on PALS grids. You were probably looking at either a Tarahumara pack used as a compression panel with bottles in the wand pockets, or bottle holsters on a belt with PALS butting up against the pack.

Guaranteed we're not going to be producing a packbag in the 6000ci range that goes on a Kifaru frame.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
New Post
8/23/2013 7:09 PM
 

Image 3 of 5 on the Product Page for the S25M shows the GI Canteen pouch on one of the compression straps....or at least that's how it looks...

 
New Post
8/23/2013 7:16 PM
 

So it does! That's something Joe set up, but I see how it would work. Basically run the 1" compression strap through the roughly 1" loop tabs on the top edge of the canteen holster. Then presumably you attach at least one side of the middle strap on the holster to an anchor point on the frame or hipbelt using the slik clips provided with the bottle holster. Otherwise it's just hanging from the top edge and would be pretty floppy.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
New Post
8/23/2013 7:54 PM
 

Ha I knew I wasn't crazy!  It looks fairly secure.  Thanks for the additional detail.

 
Previous
 
Next
HomeHomeDiscussionsDiscussionsHPGHPGattaching compression panelattaching compression panel