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HomeHomeDiscussionsDiscussionsFirearms and Sk...Firearms and Sk...308 Semi-autos discussion308 Semi-autos discussion
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6/13/2012 6:41 AM
 

El Mac wrote
 

FAL.

Please elaborate.  I assume you are saying you like the FAL. 

Between Evan and I we have owned three including a DSA SA58 carbine that was configured at different times as both a para an fixed stock version.  I prefered the fixed stock.  In the end they went down the road because they weren't consistently accurate, and were to heavy for this use.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
New Post
6/14/2012 6:23 AM
 

I just took delivery of a DSA Para that is horribly inaccurate.  It is going back to the dealer today.  I'm about ready to give up on the idea of a 308 semi.  I'm cussing myself for trading off an STG-58 FAL that was MOA accurate.  I didn't want to spend the money and effort to convert it to a para.  Lesson learned?  Accurate rifles are WAY too hard to come by to let them get away, assuming you can easily find another.

 
New Post
6/19/2012 7:24 AM
 

As I said Evan and I have owned three total including the one DSA. The one Evan owned was capable of great accuracy, but didn't seem to hold a zero from range trip to range trip. It was very frustrating to spend the time and money and have it all dialed in and shooting great groups only to find the next trip that it wasn't shooting to the same point of aim. The variation trip to trip resulted in it not being a 1.5 moa or so gun but more like 4 moa. My DSA was a solid 2.5 moa gun, which was just more than I am looking for in a longer range gun. Especially when my AK will do better with similar optics.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
New Post
9/29/2012 5:28 PM
 

 Scot-

Would you mind re-hashing your reasons for the 'no vote' for the CMMG mk3? Was weight the biggest factor? I noticed on your classifieds entry (of which i am very interested) that you would trade for an M1A- meaning possibly you would rather have a (likely heavier) M1A for general purpose rifle as opposed to your bolt gun or mk3?

I am currently in the process of deciding what to get for a general purpose rifle in .308. I've been pretty stuck on the ruger gunsite scout but keep on going back to the AR platform or just semi-autos in general. I am a fan of the AR platform because of the same ergonomics as my AR-15 and ability to readily mount night vision. The ruger GS fits that bill, too, with the optional XS rail (if i can find a way to get the PVS-14 mounted low enough on the ruger and high enough on the AR15... right now the #1 plan is taking the scope off and just using an IR laser to aim).

There is also the balance for me for long range precision shooting; I would like the general purpose gun to be good at long range as well..

The Ideal: 7lb, semi auto, top rail, cheap and attainable box magazines, not ostentatious/'scary black rifle', accurate out to 500 yards but able to do within 50 yards.... i suppose that's all not possible until AR platforms get lighter, or you take away the semi auto and go for a bolt gun... or perhaps browning lever action... 

thanks for your thoughts

 
New Post
9/29/2012 5:56 PM
 

There were two things that finally gave the no vote.  For me weight is a secondary consideration to overall size (i.e. dimensions).  The MK3 was just not a svelte option.  The pistol grip, mag (there are no factory shorter magazines for it), and higher scope mount just combine to give it a bigger foot print then I was wanting.  The second issue is that as accepted as the AR is becoming, it is still seen by a lot as a black gun.  It is not a 50 state legal rifle, and in some places, even the gun friendly, will look askance at it.  That is why I was looking at a M1A scout, more civilian looking, no pistol grip, lower mounted scope (scout scope), etc...  However, after handling one and thinking about if I really need semi I just bought a RGS yesterday.  I got it sighted in today.  I don't have enough time with it to really give a review, but intial impressions are good. Basically, what it comes down to is that for what I use a rifle for the RGS is a better fit and I don't really need a semi even for the most likely defensive situations I am likely to get into.  If I need that I have other options.

I still hope someone comes out with a modern M1A or SL7 that is more compact and lighter weight, but until then I am just rolling a AR15 for social uses, a 45/70 trappers for big bears, and a 308 bolt gun for everything else. 

Hope that helps. If you need elaboration let me know it has been a long day.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
New Post
9/29/2012 6:04 PM
 

 thanks for that reply- a very reasonable conclusion

I have to continually remind myself that a few guns and practice beats the heck out of a huge vault full of dusty guns i would never use

thanks again

 

 

 
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9/29/2012 8:15 PM
 

I have decided a SCAR-17 is worth the tariff.  At 7.9#, no other gas-operated 308 is in the ballpark.  Some have issues with the charging handle, but there are aftermarket options (GG&G) or you can just run the sucker starboard like an AK.  What's not to like, once you get over the price.  Dealers locally have magazines now, and the handy toolmen can make FAL mags work.  Speaking of FAL's, my 8 MOA DSA is back on the local dealers' shelf, DSA said just sell it to someone else.  If you are looking for an accurate FAL, don't look to DSA.  Kimber and DSA will never get another dime from me.

 
New Post
9/30/2012 7:32 AM
 

 TAK,

 

Nothing against the SCAR (except that I don't personally like them), but I would seriously look at the Larue PredatAR.  I have one on loan for now, and I also have a PredatOBR that is issued.  Both are helluva guns.  The PredatAR will meet your weight needs, and is capable of great accuracy by Ross's standards.  The PredatOBR is quite  a bit heavier and much more muzzle heavy, but is a true precision rifle that can also work for CQB.  It also is boringly reliable for both group size and placement. Both also have very mild recoil, even for guns with a brake on them.  Anyway, just an option.  Pmags are cheap too:-), though they won't reliably fall free.

 
New Post
10/1/2012 7:42 PM
 

Thanks for the info SLG, I'll take a look at the Larue, but that SCAR kinda has a spell on me right now.  I got a chance to fondle one last week.  That side folder is a big plus IMO for a gun that is intended to be carried in trucks/canoes/ etc.  A Dewalt gate mouth bag with an MOA capable 308 gas gun with a Tactical Tailor MAV loaded with mags could be a really handy little tool kit.

 
New Post
10/1/2012 8:22 PM
 

LaRue over SCAR any day....

 
New Post
10/2/2012 8:45 AM
 

 Is Larue worth the cost? 

 

Does anyone have any experience or an opinion on the browning BAR or Remington 750 woods master? Relatively lightweight semi auto .308s with decent accuracy but potentially spotty quality or reliability

 
New Post
10/2/2012 9:21 AM
 

The BAR is heavy and IIRC, no longer produced.  The Rem 742 is known as the "Jambmaster" in my AO.  Local gunsmiths won't touch them.  The  "Amish machine gun" as John Barsness refers to the Rem 760 pump, is fairly well regarded by many.  There used to be aftermarket 10rd plastic mags for those, I have no idea if they are still made.

 
New Post
10/2/2012 9:27 AM
 

El Mac wrote

LaRue over SCAR any day....

 

Glenn Zediker is one of the civilian hi-power shooters who pioneered the AR take over of that sport.  Many tried the AR-10's available at the time.  They broke.  The M110 has nothing but lousy reports from GI's and  5th GP's Level II Sniper School NCOIC did his best to keep them from being fielded.

 

I'm not saying Larue makes anything but good products but I doubt that rifle has been flogged like the SCAR.  The only thing that has broken on the SCAR is the latch on the stock, and the aftermarket already has a fix.

 
New Post
10/2/2012 9:42 AM
 

TAK, obviously you know more about what was going on with the M110, but perhaps your information is a bit dated?  I have done a bunch of reading on the current state of the AR10 (generically used term), and to judge the current models by the M110 is not really fair or accurate. Kind of like judging a current AR by A1 experience in Vietnam.  They are different beasts with more development behind them.

Some research on the SCAR might also be in order I know that at one point they were also eating optics due to the recoil impulse, but I don't know if that has been fixed or not. 

Hopefully, SLG and El Mac will respond in more detail. I know SLG has knowledge about implementation and in user use of both the Scar and Laure, and sounds like El Mac does as well. I am definitly interested as those two seem to be the king for price, weight, and reilability.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
New Post
10/2/2012 1:12 PM
 

My info on the M110 is pretty dated, 5+ yrs or so?  But I've not heard anything postitive since.  The word is guys are taking the optic off of M110's and putting on their SCARs if they have the option.  As for the SCAR killing optics, maybe its some reverse recoil phenomenon because of the break?  I've not heard that.  I'm planning to get the Burris 1.5-6X XTR and that one is supposedly pretty rugged.

 
New Post
10/2/2012 2:31 PM
 

Take a knee- i guess what i meant was the newer Browning BAR, sometimes called BAR safari. pretty lighweight .308 with good accuracy with the BOSS system

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B

and with the Larue OBR- all i know is that it won the 10th international sniper competition (got the free dvd when i ordered a mount from them). pretty impressive accuracy and i would assume reliability from a .308 AR platform. too bad it's $3300...

 
New Post
10/16/2012 10:43 AM
 

Just saw this thread and thought I could contribute.

After getting where I wanted to be with a couple of 6.8s - doing so because I didn't think any one would make a reliable, milspec AR in .308 - a couple of very promising ARs in .308 came on the market almost at the same time:  the Knight's EMC, the LMT MWS, and the lighter weight Larue PredatOBR.  Related to all of this was FN's SCAR-H.  I chose the PredatOBR for these reasons (and waited about three months once I ordered one).

1.  The OBR quality was a known quantity - and the former dominated the sniper's competition at Benning a couple of years back - from a company I'd done business with that had alawys had been accessible for questions big and small.  Feedback on '110s was not wholly positive.  LMTs have proven themselves in Brit hands abroad but the 1-11.25 rate of twist rifles are hard to come by.  Although i've handled a SCAR-H I have not fired one but didn't like the ergonomics.

2.  This version of the OBR was lighter and offered the chance to choose the length of barrel desired.  I went with 18".

3.  Supportability.  Knight's doesn't sell parts for all practical purposes.  LMT told me that they would replace parts that failed but didn't know when they might be selling parts to folks who wanted spares.  Ditto FN for SCAR parts.  The folks at Larue asked me how many I wanted and which ones.  Their website even lists a keep-it-shooting kit.  I took advantage of this though have needed nothing.

4.  Mags can be either the excellent Larue mag, a Knights, or the Magpul Pmag.  I did finally see some SCAR-H mags at a gun show two weeks back but they're still hard to come by and expensive.

5.  Weight with a Nightforce 2.5-10x and Deuck BUIS is still doable; lighter than an MWS, no heavier than an EMT, though heavier than a SCAR.  My system is lighter than an M24 and much handier.

If this rifle had been available when I decided to get into 6.8, I'd likely not gone into the intermediate caliber.

 
New Post
10/28/2012 3:55 PM
 

It would/will be a choice between the Larue or the SCAR, IMO.  I wouldn't spend a nickel with Reed Knight, not after the crap he pulled with the M110.  Daniel Defense is also in bed with Knight, they use their reject lowers for their "milspec" guns.  Try dropping a box trigger like an AR Gold into an LMT, you'll be whittling awhile.  Don't have a problem with a DPMS.  If you want a quality AR these days, you'd better learn how to assemble it yourself, then flog it hard before you bet your arse on it.  I'm leaning SCAR.

 
New Post
10/29/2012 8:24 AM
 

TAK,

Knowing your background I know that you understand the importance of good reliable information. Couple that with the fact that there is already way to much mis-information, myth, hype, etc... regarding the AR on the internet I am going to ask for your to substantiate your claims regarding DD using seconds and LMT not being milspec.  Both of those items are contrary to my understanding and commonly available information. Not saying you are wrong just saying that on this forum you need to be prepared to support your contentions. 

I probably won't ever buy any rifles from KAC, but I do like their foregrips and 300m rear sights, because they simply want way to much money when there are other excellent options on the market for thousands less. I also am not privy to all that happened with the M110, but on the other hand I don't have an axe to grind one way or the other. I have heard from what I consider a reliable source that KAC tried to get the Army to do some upgrades on the M110, but were turned down, would that have changed everything I don't know. I do know their new rifles have a good reputation for reliability. I buy Ruger despite Seniors stance on civilians and black guns, and I buy Leupolds despite their stance during the Vietnam war.  Things change and companies change.

Any gun needs to be vetted prior to use, and discussing what brands for a 5.56 AR are good to go is beyond the scope of this thread. However, I have seen way to many folks who "learned" how to asemble a rifle end up with a malfunction machine while BCM, Noveskes, LMTs, DDs, and Colts just hum along.  I have also seen a friday afternoon DD so they are out there.

Here are a couple of good threads on the SCARH specifically, and semis in general.  SeanM is in the position to know of what he speaks, and you will notice he bought a Larue not a SCAR. (referencing all three as they are kind of one long thread and need to be read as one for coherence in my opinion.)

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5709-SCAR-17-discussion

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5683-308-Semi-Auto-Rifle

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1342-LaRue-OBR-Predator-Review

I will say that the more I hear from SLG about his Larue the more I want one, and I really have not need/use for one.....


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
New Post
10/29/2012 9:28 AM
 

Scott, I had a discussion last week with the NCOIC of one of the SF Group's sniper schools.  He said the M110's issues had not been resolved.  I've related in earlier posts that another NCOIC of another SF Group's SOTIC did every thing in his power to stop the M110 from being fielded when he got his hands on a non-ringer production sample.  He related to me that unwitting non-shooters  had been duped by Reed Knight into signing off on contract specs for the M110 that were unsatisfactory, accuracy-wise.  He shipped ringers to every one for testing and then cut his costs on the production guns.  These guys have no reason to make this stuff up.

A friend just attemped to install an AR Gold trigger into my LMT lower.  That took me about 2min to do in my DMPS 3-gun rifle.  The LMT required about a half hour of fitting/filing/grinding.  A call to the trigger vendor netted the "avoid LMT" lowers and the info about LMT buying their uppers from Knight.  I shold also add that same LMT lower has had constant issues of the trigger pin walking from day one of use.  Not so with my DPMS.

I had my hands on a Noveske upper last week.  The folding BUIS's on the gun had more flop in them than any cheap import I've ever seen.  I have a set of US made Yankee Hill BUIS's that lock up much better, and cost less than half of what the Noveske sights do.

The only AR maker that lives up to their reputation, IMO, is Colt.

 
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