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8/16/2017 11:42 AM
 
evanhill wrote:

This is something I've been musing about myself. When you talk about 200k plus miles, you're talking about a 10 year or more time horizon. Does looking at what was made well 10 or more years ago really have a lot of bearing on what is being made well today? Some, but it's not a lot to go on.

 

Here is what you can "go on":  I've read financial reports comparing Toyota and GM's manufacturing costs, both per/hr and the attendant "legacy" costs.  Toyota's costs are, IIRC, some 20% or so LESS than GM's (or any other American manufacturer).   Add to this the fact that Toyotas sell, on average, for several thousand MORE than American designed vehicles.  Toyota can simply afford to offer a higher build-quality than GM or Chrysler

The Harvard/Yale/Wharton crew that ran Detroit laughed at Deming. Koyanagi invited Deming to Japan.  The fact that an extended-cab 4wd Tacoma with 100K on the odo is a freakin' unicorn on the used market is the result.

The biggest problem, IMO, with long-term reliability of a 4wd truck/jeep today is/are electrical components,  EFI makes engines last longer (the engine "tunes" itself to achieve stoichiometry) but it and other digital gizmos can and will strand you.  The only way to avoid this is to build up/restore an older vehicle.  When I do, it'll have three elipses in the grill and probably a Chevy engine/tranny.

 

 
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9/24/2017 10:31 AM
 
I was curious about Evan's Cherokee. I can't find a search feature in the new forum. I'm in the daydreaming/gathering information stage for a sort of dedicated backcountry/camping rig. Something I can sleep in relatively comfortably if needed, something not too big, the same stuff everyone else is looking or I guess. I thought an older XJ was the way to go but after some research I'm not so sure now, plus all the ones around me (northern New England area) have been beat to heck.
 
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9/26/2017 6:25 AM
 
I bought a '98 Chevy K2500 back in 2010. I guess I was in a "More Power!" phase. It was fun to drive in Colorado, didn't have worry about hitting the dirt roads in the mountains. Sold it last year because I'm in northern Virginia now and they have emissions testing.

Based on my needs (rarely need to tow stuff, need to move Scouts to campouts), my next truck will more than likely be a Tacoma. I don't have much faith in the Jeep brand anymore.
 
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9/26/2017 12:52 PM
 
Ravens Watch wrote:
 I thought an older XJ was the way to go....

 

 

Height would be my main quesiton, I breifly had an XJ and there was a lot to like about it but at 6'2" it just wasn't big enough to sleep very comfortably, ended up selling it for a 4runner that had just a few more inches that made all the difference. I've now sold the 4runner and am looking for a few more inches again, I'd love to be a able to sleep without having to shove the front seats all the way forward.

 

 
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9/26/2017 8:25 PM
 
Does anyone have any recommendations for a guy on a limited budget? I will have about $5000 to spend on a 4x4 by next summer.
-I would prefer an SUV over a truck
-I was considering a first generation Xterra but I don't know if I should be looking at higher mileage 4Runners or Jeeps.
-I won't be using it for commuting
 
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9/29/2017 7:52 AM
 
BlairB wrote:
Does anyone have any recommendations for a guy on a limited budget? I will have about $5000 to spend on a 4x4 by next summer.
-I would prefer an SUV over a truck
-I was considering a first generation Xterra but I don't know if I should be looking at higher mileage 4Runners or Jeeps.
-I won't be using it for commuting
 
Xterras are a good value and capable vehicle. I think 5k is doable in general, but in that price range it's going to come down to the specific deal you find rather than a particular model. Educate yourself on values in your area and start watching used vehicles come and go to get a feel so when you see one that is a better value than the trend you can jump on it. Tempting though it may be, you're probably not looking for a vehicle that has already been set up for off road use. That means it has probably been used off road and therefore is not in as good of condition as somebody's kid hauling suv. So plan to spend ~$1k on tires off the bat. The exception to that would be built JKs and vehicles set up for "overlanding". Many of those two types will never even see gravel. But they'd probably be out of your price range.

 


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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9/29/2017 8:55 PM
 
Thanks Evan. I'll keep that in mind and watch my local classifieds.
 
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9/30/2017 3:07 PM
 

A little tougher to come by, but also good budget options if you happen upon one is either an older Nissan Patrol or Mitsubishi Montero.  A lot of guys had them when I lived in Germany, and they both did pretty well.  I had an older Patrol in  Bosnia and it was a pretty good rig.  It even had locking diffs!  You might get lucky and find one of those older ones from the 80s or early 90s.


Hill People Gear Coureurs des Bois (Brand Ambassador). Victoria faveat paratam. De Oppresso Liber.
 
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10/1/2017 10:22 AM
 

I own a 2014 Tacoma Double Cab 4x4. I ended up going with a new vehicle because I was unable to find a used truck in the condition that I wanted at a price that I wanted. I've been really happy with my purchase so far, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend this vehicle. My truck is nearly stock, except for an ARE canopy, and recently added BFG gen 2 All terrains (replaced the stock tires at 40k).

I live in an urban area, and most of my miles are on pavement. Not going to lie about that. Having a capable off road vehicle has still been an asset. I haul a lot of gear for my job, and having a truck has been great for that as well. No need to worry about tearing up the carpeted interior of an SUV. The double cab still offers a lot of space for storage inside the cab.

Here's what I like about it- not all of these are specific to this particular model, but more just about having a truck:
-More capable off road than I am willing/able to drive- this is partly geographic- there just isn't that much worth driving to around here that is too far off a road of some sort.
-Good amount of power for its size (I don't tow much)
-I fit well in it (I'm a short guy)
-The truck bed is great for utility- wet, dirty, smelly- doesn't matter. It's been a great asset, and the "plastic" bed of the Tacoma won't rust out. Seems plenty tough.
-Doesn't stand out too much in the city. Easier to drive than a bigger rig in the city.
-Can drive over curbs to avoid traffic. Done that before.
-At 47k Miles, no issues to speak of.
-4wd works well
-Good headlights
-Quality, tough interior with lots of hidden storage
-My model has a built in inverter and 120v outlet in the bed. Nice for charging batteries while on the road. Can be used for smaller wattage or LED lights.

Things I don't like
-Mileage sucks. I can get up to 20mpg on the highway, but its usually more like 16 in the city.
-Short bed size is too short to sleep in (even for me, a short guy)
-Had to have the dealership turn off the seatbelt warning alarms
-Stock mud flaps get torn off. I need to remove the remaining ones
-The reverse lights are way too weak. I may look into LED replacement or supplementation
-The truck bed, even with a canopy and additional sealant, is not environmentally sealed. Not a big deal, just something to know. If you drive on gravel roads or dusty roads, everything in the back WILL get dusty. So far, water intrusion has not been an issue.

A few upgrades that I have found useful:
-Removing the stock organizer from behind the seat and replacing it with a MOLLE panel- not sure if these are currently available. Regardless, ditch the organizer.
-Console vault locking center console
-Tuffy security box replacement for the stock truck bed side storage box
-BFG TA KO/2's - I went with 265/75/16's on the stock rims.
-Weathertech floor liners (US Made)
-Marathon 1000D cordura seat covers (made in Montana!)
-Rubber mat for truck bed- the plastic bed is like an ice rink for plastic storage boxes

Thats it for now.
 

 
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10/2/2017 10:15 AM
 
Thanks, Ken. I'll be on the lookout for those.

alpendrms wrote:

A little tougher to come by, but also good budget options if you happen upon one is either an older Nissan Patrol or Mitsubishi Montero. A lot of guys had them when I lived in Germany, and they both did pretty well. I had an older Patrol in Bosnia and it was a pretty good rig. It even had locking diffs! You might get lucky and find one of those older ones from the 80s or early 90s.

 
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10/6/2017 10:01 AM
 

Just picked this guy up this week: http://strat.fyi/hpg-album
Not sure if that helps this thread in any way, really, but I figured pictures of actual trucks are always nice for conversations like these.

[edit: fwiw, in the interest of helping further this conversation, that outfit was just under $6k OTD after purchase of actual vehicle, its tax, title transfer fee, 2 year registration, all the accessories like cap, plow, etc, etc...  That's what I ended up spending at the end of the day.  So I'd say not a steal, but not a terrible price either. 2004 4.7v8 4 door, 118k, new tires etc. Posting this not for bragging rights - like I said, I think that was a relatively fair price to both parties - but hopefully that can help provide some insight to what some of these sorts of vehicles are actually selling for?]

 
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10/9/2017 8:31 PM
 

I'm currently looking for a rig as well. I've been looking pretty heavily over the last few months.  Earlier this year I bought my wife a brand new Outback. I'll be honest, that car is way more capable than I would have thought. 8.7 inches of clearance, tons of creature comforts, averaging 29mpg and can tow our utility trailer and up to 2500 pounds. I think we'll keep this for quite a long time.

Now I'm looking for a rig to use for camping, fishing, hunting as well as being able to pick the kids up from school. I've narrowed it down to a built XJ, built/overland 3rd Gen 4runner w/ locker or 5th gen 4runner Trail, Lexus GX/Prado to build, Taco crew cab, or F150 with the ecoboost/locker. They all have their pros/cons. 

We tend to drive our vehicles for quite some time. Wife had a Lexus RX and it now sits at 300k and my most recent fishing/commuter was a 2001 Golf with the turbo diesel (48mpg average over life of car!) and it sits at 300k as well. Both run like tops, but I don't commute anymore (work from home) and looking to sell both rides to use as down payment on one of the rigs listed above. Choices, choices, choices.... 

 
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