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11/27/2012 10:22 AM
 

 I don't own one, but did handle one in our local gunshop the other day.  To my hands the stock has about 2 pounds too much wood on it, it feels "clubby" and would have been much better had they used the original M77 contour.   And while the detachable magazine is OK, I would sure like to see a clip-slot in it.  That was part of the original rationale on the scout rifle.  The Ruger flash suppressor isn't as effective in .30 cal. as others out there.  The FAL or M14 type work much better, but you must ream them with a No. 7 taperpin reamer to avoid getting high shots when shooting in the rain.

 
New Post
11/27/2012 10:42 AM
 

oldpinecricker wrote
No review of the Ruger GSR but I bought mine new in box and I've noticed that the bolt has ghastly deep machining marks on the lugs and it looks like it was produced in an junior high machine shop class. Darn shame. Not only that, I've also got issues with an Rossi 45/70 and older Marlin 45-70GS. The wild success is that my Stag M7 6.8spc and Colt M4 and its 6.8 upper are both outstanding and superb. In fact while some of my leverguns and bolt guns have some suckage bigtime, my AR's and AK-47 are just GTG and do what their susposed to. Guess that battle tested and tried and true design are the way to go. Now im wishing that I would have kept my German Mauser 98 Karbiner. Ill shoot the Ruger and decide if its kept, and I so want it to work. For me Team AR and AK work and are child simple to keep running.

Did you not get a chance to inspect it prior to purchase? I find it sad that there is not really any gun company, well maybe HK, that seems to put our a product that you can expect to be good to go out of the box. There are as many lemon ARs and AKs out there as anything.

I had planned to do my stock mods over the last couple of weekends (light rail and swivel cups), but life got in the way. At this point, I am not sure when I am going to have the time again.

I like Rugers wood stocks better, but I think the difference is in the denser feel of the stock and not in a different contour, because I have handled one of the Cabela's versions with an identical stock and it handled different. 

Good luck with the RGS and I wouldn't hesitate to send it back prior to shooting with a note to make it right. Incidently, I got a chance to compare my extractor to a brand new Winchester M70 and its extractor was really loose, a lot looser than Evan's Mauser.  I need to do some research, but plan to relieve some of the tension on it with Evan's as a guide.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
New Post
11/28/2012 6:45 AM
 

It was ordered in by my FFL as he knew I wanted one.  I bought it and had to run home and was busy with life.  Now that I've looked it over, I'm a bit troubled about the QC in some of the machining.  One the brightside I'll repeat that the AK and AR's are super.  Thankfully my Winchester trapper 30-30 and 1886's are just fine, as well as my Marlin Papoose and old 336 30-30. 

 

The Ruger GSR is kind of icing of the cake and it was planned as one of my last purchases as I needed an 308.  Basically, AR's, Glocks, XD's, and HK's have been very good.

 
New Post
11/28/2012 12:53 PM
 

And while the detachable magazine is OK, I would sure like to see a clip-slot in it.  That was part of the original rationale on the scout rifle.

Bear in mind that the original scout rifle particulars were produced at a time when there really wasn't such a beast as a detachable box fed bolt action. At this stage of the game, I consider the stripper clip / DBM thing an either or choice. Stripper clips are *way* ahead of single load, and even ahead of 5 round DBMs. They fall quite a ways short of 10 round DBMs though. All you have to do is watch a line full of shooters running a somewhat tactical drill with their bolt guns and it is immediately obvious that if you find yourself in that situation you want high capacity DBMs. The "isn't likely" argument doesn't really cut it. If you're not preparing for that possibility, why even consider a stripper clip guide? DBMs also have the advantage of allowing you to run better optics than you can if you have to leave the entire action free. The new leupold low power variable "scout" scopes need to be mounted with the rear bell covering about half of the action which precludes stripper clip use. Both of the new leupold variables offer a better sight picture as well as better low end and high end than the older fixed power 2.5x which can be mounted ahead of the action. I prefer a scope that is a ways forward on a bolt action myself, but for those who want a traditionally mounted scope or happen to have one on the shelf, a DBM allows for that as well.

All that being said, the stripper clip option is retro-sexy, pretty doggone capable, and allows you to carry more ammo in a "ready to go" state in a smaller package than DBMs do.

If the synthetic stock makers overlook the "I want a synthetic stock on my GSR" people, they're idiots. I presume they're not all idiots and one will be available soon enough.


We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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11/28/2012 2:06 PM
 

I was at my gunsmiths shop the other day and he had just bought a new lefty GSR for himself. I got to fondle it for about a half hour. He was kinda dissapointed about how "gritty" the action was and had already put a hour of his time into smoothing it out. He also had some double stack mags that a guy makes in his garage. They are 10 round mags that are about as long as the ruger 5 rounders. The more I handled it the more I wanted one and he said he could get me one for about $690. Then I thought about it, what does this do that my 6.8 AR doesen't? Nothing really other than not looking so tactical.

 
New Post
11/28/2012 2:19 PM
 

The difference is the tactical look and the difference between 6.8 and 308 both ballistics and ammo availability and cost. In your case that might not matter. In some it will. To me it does. Evan and I were talking about this this morning, and I have to say I still really really love the 6.8. I just wish it was more available and cheaper.

Maybe I just have different thoughts about what is smooth, and what isn't. Or maybe I just don't expect a Remington 700 type throw from a mauser action, but I haven't felt any of the 8 or so that I have handled had gritty actions.  That doesn't mean they aren't out there, but just makes me wonder. Have I been lucky or.....

Incidently 690 is a stellar price.

To be fair my ARs still see a lot of use.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
New Post
11/28/2012 4:58 PM
 

I'm spending too much money in these pursuits.  I'm probably just better off not shooting my Ruger and selling everything and go back to an SKS with an ammo belt and stripper clips.

 
New Post
11/28/2012 5:23 PM
 

oldpinecricker wrote
 

I'm spending too much money in these pursuits.  I'm probably just better off not shooting my Ruger and selling everything and go back to an SKS with an ammo belt and stripper clips.

  There are worse combos out there...

 
New Post
11/28/2012 7:46 PM
 

If you absolutely must have optics, then a DBM is a must.  

I don't consider an optical sight a must have, but whether optics are available or not, rugged iron sights which are well zeroed are a must-have.  It is true that today's scopes and mounts are more rugged, and the better optics are well sealed against moisture.  But, f the scope takes a whack and is knocked off  zero, unless you have backup iron sights, or carry a spare scope, pre-zeroed in its own QD mounts, which repeat, you are SOL.  If the primary sighting equipment will be iron sights, a clip slot, for me, is a must-have.  While there are 20-round boxes out there, their use generally precludes use of a low prone position, which is more stable in rapid-fire and has a lower silhouette, which makes a smaller target for return fire.  A ten-shot DBM is sufficient sufficient on a boltgun. There are plenty of reliable Euro 10-round 7.62mm NATO strippers out there, Cheaper Than Dirt has the French ones which work fine. For a practiced match shooter trained in running a boltgun 200 and 300 rapid, reloading time using strippers is very close to changing magazines.  It does take practice.

I have frequently shot a modified Infantry Trophy match using an accurized No. 4 Mk1* Long Branch, firing under the same time limits as the gas guns. Most of the time I manage  18-20 rounds at 600 within a minute, usually getting 6 hits or more on each of my three E silhouettes to qualify for bonus points.  A Master class ITT shooter with a Garand would do 24 rounds back in the day, not much difference.  With the M14 the goal was to 30 rounds in a minute at 600 firing the M14, but even Master shooters won't do so with enougb hits to score bonus points on all targets every time.

The RGS is being tested as a possible replacement, among other contenders, for the aging 7.62mm NATO converted No. 4 Long Branch rifles used by the Canadian Rangers in the arctic.   My .303 Long Branch was rebuilt in the 1970s by Don Hamilton of Kanata, Ont. and is of similar configuration.

canadiandefence.com/canadian-ranger-rifle-update/

www.torontosun.com/2011/09/30/the-canadian-ranger-rifle-project

www.casr.ca/bg-crr-canadian-ranger-rifle.htm

Interesting concept and discussion.

 
New Post
11/29/2012 10:55 AM
 

ke4sky wrote
 

I have frequently shot a modified Infantry Trophy match using an accurized No. 4 Mk1* Long Branch, firing under the same time limits as the gas guns. Most of the time I manage  18-20 rounds at 600 within a minute, usually getting 6 hits or more on each of my three E silhouettes to qualify for bonus points.  

Okay, I have to get clarification. Are you saying that you are capable of firing 20 shots, including a reload (I am assuming standard Enfield capacity), in 1 minute and getting 18 hits at 600 yds in 1 minute on a military style silhouette target?  What position? Is that irons or optic? If that is the case that is some truly world class shooting.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
New Post
11/29/2012 5:49 PM
 

scothill wrote

 ke4sky wrote 

I have frequently shot a modified Infantry Trophy match using an accurized No. 4 Mk1* Long Branch, firing under the same time limits as the gas guns. Most of the time I manage  18-20 rounds at 600 within a minute, usually getting 6 hits or more on each of my three E silhouettes to qualify for bonus points.  

Okay, I have to get clarification. Are you saying that you are capable of firing 20 shots, including a reload (I am assuming standard Enfield capacity), in 1 minute and getting 18 hits at 600 yds in 1 minute on a military style silhouette target?  What position? Is that irons or optic? If that is the case that is some truly world class shooting. 

The course of fire for the Infantry Trophy Team Match, as fired in the Interservice matches and at Camp Perry is described here:

readinghighpower.com/so%20you%20want%20to%20shoot%20infantry%20trophy,%20amu.pdf

Traditionally the ITT has been fired with the M1 Garand or M14/M1A rifle using the military iron sights.  State civilian teams have competed against military teams at Camp Perry since the early 1960s.  When I was a cadet at Virginia Tech firing the ITT was considered "final graduation" upon completion of the Small Arms Firing School  conducted by the Army Marksmanship Unit at Camp Perry, Ohio (this was 1967).  

Civilian clubs fire a modified ITT course of fire using 2-man teams.  Our club encourages the use of vintage military rifles and has separate awards for boltguns in our matches. Accurized No. 4 Enfields and Swiss K31s dominate the bolt rifle category and Master shooters are right up with  the Garand and M14/M1A users. Some shooters use the '03 Springfield or US M1917 and almost all manage to get off at ten, sometimes more, rounds in a 50-second string. The Modified Course of Fire from our match brochure follows:

Our Infantry Trophy Match mimics and is named after the similar Infantry Trophy Team Match (ITT) event conducted during the National Matches at Camp Perry. Originally this was a competition held between Army Infantry Squads using the M1 rifle during WWII, but "rattle battle"  or "mad minute" has attracted much interest and has become popular as an adjunct to the M1 Garand and Vintage Military Bolt Matches. Our modified match uses two-man teams rather than six-man teams as competing at Camp Perry.
 
Two-man teams engage three "E" targets at prone-rapid at 600 yards, make safe and show clear, then move forward, repeating on three "E" targets firing prone rapid at 500 yards, then repeat the forward movement to fire on three "D" silhouettes sitting rapid at 300 yards. If any ammunition remains from the allotment of 128 rounds per two-man team remaining ammunition is expended standing at an "F" silhouette at 200 yards. Each stage begins with shooters in position with sling, their rifle loaded with 8 rounds (if using a Garand or M14/M1A). When the targets appear they commence fire and reload, continuing to fire until the targets are back into the pits after 50 seconds. Boltguns may be loaded initially with 10 rounds if the particular model of rifle was originallly issued with a 10-round magazine.  Bonus points are awarded for the number of targets with six or more hits. 

 

 
New Post
11/30/2012 8:37 AM
 

National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice
19 January 1959


THE INFANTRY TROPHY TEAM MATCH.  According to Army Regulations 920-30 dated 5 July 1957 and Changes 1 and 2 thereto, currently valid, the following descriptive information is presented.

  1. Strength of Teams.  Teams will consist of six firing members, a team captain and/or coach (non-firing members), all of whom will be permitted on the firing line during the match.
  2. Course of Fire.
    1. Stages
      1. First stage is 600 yards prone in 50 seconds
      2. Second stage is 500 yards prone, sitting or kneeling in 50 seconds
      3. Third stage is 300 yards sitting or kneeling in 50 seconds
      4. Fourth stage is 200 yards offhand in 50 seconds
  3. Sling.  The sling may be used in all positions of all stages.
  4. Conditions.
    1. Ammunition.  384 rounds of ammunition in eight round clips will be issued to each team at the 600 yard firing points prior to the beginning of the match.  This ammunition is the total for the entire match and may be used at the discretion of the team captain.
    2. Teams will take their places on the 600 yard line as directed by team officals.  Firing will begin at each stage when the targets are exposed.  Teams will be in firing positions, pieces loaded and locked.  Targets will be withdrawn after being exposed for 50 seconds.  Movement forward between stages will be in line with pieces loaded and locked, muzzles elevated and pointed down range.
  5. Scoring.  All scoring will be done on the firing line and spotters will be used.
    1. Hits will count four (4) points at 600 yards, three (3) points at 500 yards, two (2) points at 300 yards, and one (1) point at 200 yards.
    2. To the total score made at each range will be added as a bonus for distribution, the square of the number of targets containing six (6) or more hits each.
    3. No adjustments will be made for misfires, disabled pieces, or other failure of materiel or personnel.
  6. Targets--Position and Sizes of Silhouettes.
    1. 200 yards--eight (8) F-targets, each superimposed on an A-target; top of F-target aligned with the top of the four (4) ring.
    2. 300 yards--same as 200 yards.
    3. Size of F-target--26" wide, 19" high.
    4. 500 yards--eight (8) E-targets, superimposed on an A-target, top of E-target aligned with top of three (3) ring.
    5. 600 yards--same as 500 yards.
    6. Size of E-target--19 1/2" wide, 40" high.
    From the descriptive material one can readily understand that extensive practice for civilian teams is restricted greatly by the ammunition problem.  Ordinarily, the average civilian is not willing to furnish or does not have the funds to furnish sufficient ammunition for training comparable to that of the service teams.  Consequently, it is unrealistic to expect a high degree of proficiency from civilian teams in this match.  However, a minimum of practice will produce surprising results.
    Organization.  It was mentioned previously that the six firing members, a non-firing coach and a non-firing captain comprise the team.  Control is facilitated by dividing the team into two equal units mentioned hereafter as fire-units.  The non-firing member of each fire-unit is designated fire-unit leader (FUL) and directs the fire of his unit.  Each fire-unit expends its ammunition on four (4) targets.  Ammunition is expended according to several systems which are presented as the following subjects.
    Concentrated Fire.  Approved for firing on days which have steady wind.
    Members fire on BONUS target first.

600 yards--4 rounds on bonus target, 16 rounds on own target.
500 yards--8 rounds on bonus target, 16 rounds on own target.
300 yards--4 rounds on bonus target, 16 rounds on own target.
200 yards should have no rounds.

    Advantages.
  1. Minimum of shifting of aim.
  2. Greater volume of fire in minimum of time.
  3. Easier for fire-unit leader to follow trajectory of bullets.
    Disadvantages.  If one firer is off "dope," the bonus target is usually lost.

Note:  The foregoing is the recommended system for untrained firers.


    Concentrated Fire - Simplified System.  Approved for firing on days when the wind is steady.

Shooter 600 Yards 500 Yards 300 yards 200 yards
No. 1 16, 4, 0, 0 16, 8, 0, 0 16, 4, 0, 0 Anything
No. 2 0, 10, 10, 0 0, 12, 12, 0 0, 10, 10, 0 left
No. 3 0, 0, 4, 16 0, 0, 8, 16 0, 0, 4, 16 over
    Advantages.
  1. Minimum shifting of aim and yet an equitable distribution of rounds.
  2. Easier for fire-unit leader to follow bullet trajectories.
  3. Increases volume of fire due to less shifting.
    Disadvantages.
  1. All firers must be on dope or the loss of targets 2 and 3 is highly probable.
  2. Firer number three (3) does not fire at bonus target.
  3. An extremely high degree of accuracy is required to all men.
    Note:  The foregoing system has proven very satisfactory for trained teams.


    Distributed Fire.  Very satisfactory for firing in a gusty wind or when a firer is uncertain of his zero.
    Members fire on BONUS target first.

Shooter 600 Yards 500 Yards 300 yards 200 yards
No. 1 8, 8, 4, 0 8, 8, 8, 0 8, 8, 4, 0 Any rounds
No. 2 8, 4, 4, 8 8, 4, 4, 8 8, 4, 4, 8 left
No. 3 0, 4, 8, 8 0, 8, 8, 8 0, 4, 4, 8 over
    Advantages.
  1. Provides for wider distribution of rounds.
  2. If one firer is "off dope," the target will be hit by others.
    Disadvantages.
  1. Fire-unit leader has a more difficult time in following trajectory of bullets.
  2. Numerous shifts cut down volume of fire in many cases or reduce accuracy of fire.
    Note:  Foregoing is not recommended for civilian use unless highly trained.

    The Fire-Unit Leader.  Fire direction and control depends upon this man.
  1. Qualifications.  He should:
    1. be an experienced coach.
    2. be able to follow the bullet's trajectory well with binoculars since these are the only optics allowed.
    3. be able to estimate the wind correctly and call out accurate changes.
    4. understand the problems inherent in this particular match.
    5. know the perculiarities of the various weapons and men in his fire-unit.
  2. Duties Before Firing.
    1. Distribute 64 rounds of ammunition to each man and see that men check clips for long rounds, etc.
    2. Check with all firers regarding estimation of wind velocity if any.
    3. Make certain that each firer has set sights according to instructions.
    4. Make certain that each firer understands his target assignment and the firing system to be used.
    5. Redistributes ammunition at each range when necessary.
    6. Commands are as follows:  (example)
      1. Set sights for 600 yards, zero wind
      2. Right three minutes
      3. Unlock
      4. Cease firing, unload
  3. Duties During Firing.
    1. Observes firing from behind the fastest shooter and calls out necessary elevation and windage changes by saying (for example):
      Number One--up 2, right 3
      The fire-unit leader should practice keeping his mouth shut when not giving a command.
    Sighting and Points of Aim.  There are several systems of sighting.  Each has been satisfactory for certain groups under certain conditions.  Each is presented for examination and each should be tried before accepting any.
  1. Center of Mass.  This method of aiming is often called "Squaring the Target."  That is to say, the firer aims at the imaginary center of the target frame.  The firer should reduce his normal six o'clock zero setting by approximately three (3) minutes.  The majority of trained firers use this system of aiming at 500 and 600 yards.
  2. Base of Target.  This system is often called the "butt hold."  That is to say, the firer aims at that point where the target and ground at its base seem to conicide.  This hold requires the addition of three (3) minutes approximately to the setting for the normal six o'clock sight picture.  One advantage of this system is that the firer may be sighted prior to the raising of the targets.  Untrained firers have made good use of this system.
  3. Six o'clock Hold.  Since it is almost impossible to see the silhouette at the long ranges because of its color, this system is not recommended.  However, this hold is used by the majority of trained and untrained firers at 200 and 300 yards and is considered very satisfactory.  This is the standard government sight picture as shown in Field Manual 23-5, US Rifle, Cal. .30, M1.

  4. Special Sight Adjustments.  Many shooters have found it advantageous to put on from one to two minutes of left windage and elevate from one to two minutes before firing on a zero wind day.  This is done because in some cases, the shooter's center of impact tends to be low and right during firing at a high rate.  This is not an established fact for all shooters and each person must determine his slow and rapid fire zeros.
    Positions.  Orthodox prone and sitting positions are employed with minor modifications.
  1. Prone.  The body should be positioned directly behind the rifle if possible and the right leg should be placed as far to the right as possible.  The chest should be clear of the ground in order to place the wieght of the body on the elbows.
        Under ordinary circumstances, the hands are not used specifically to point the weapon, such pointing being accomplished by positioning the body correctly prior to firing.  Contrary to the usual system, the hands and arms are used in this match in an effort to maintain sight alignment on the target.  Both hands grasp the rifle firmly in order to facilitate rapid recovery from the high rate of fire.
  2. Sitting.  Since the sitting position is not as solid as the prone, recoil causes the body to move further to the rear after each shot, delaying recovery for the next shot.  Therefore, the position best suited is that of open legs with the weight of the body well forward.  The right elbow should rest inside of the knee.
  3. Offhand.  No attempt has been made to arrive at a satisfactory stance for this stage as in the majority of cases, all ammunition has been or should have been expended before arriving at the 200 yard line.
    Trigger Manipulation.  The standard trigger squeeze system is not entirely satisfactory for firing from 16 to 24 or more rounds in 50 seconds.  It is necessary for the firer to maintain continuous sight alignment while recovering from the previous shot.  Trigger squeeze of this type is often spoken of as a "rapid mash" of the trigger.
    Sling.  The sling is permitted in all positions at all ranges and should be as tight as possible in order to hold the firer in constant position.  It has been found that the tighter the sling, the higher the score, generally speaking.
    Sight Sizes.  It is recognized that the eyes of all shooters are not the same as pertains to defining the sights or target.  Consequently, the shooter should determine by experimentation which of the various sights is most suitable.
  1. Rear Sight.  The largest rear aperture should be used since this size aids the firer in distinguishing his target or aiming point more readily on a dull or dark day.
  2. Front Sight.  Actual practice has shown that the width of the front sight blade makes little or no difference to trainedfirers.  Untrained firers will find that a wide front blade will facilitate aiming at the long ranges since the width of the blade coincides almost exactly with that of the target.
    Distribution of Ammunition.  It has been found most satisfactory to issue 64 rounds to each firer immediately upon receipt of the ammunition.  Each firer should at the time of issue, check for long rounds, etc.  The 64 rounds should then be placed in his belt and the pockets fastened.  Issuing all rounds at one time helps prevent confusion at the various ranges.
    Positioning of Firers.  The fastest firer should be positioned in the center of the fire-unit.  Thus, in event of a misfire or malfunction by a team member, he will be in a position to cover the targets with a minimum of shifting on his part.  (It is considered that all team members are accurate riflemen.)  The fire-unit leader should position himself directly behind the center position team member and make corrections for the fire-unit by observing the fire of the center member.
    Reloading.  Continuous dry pracice should be undertaken in order to obtain smooth and swift reloading.   A firer should be able to reload, resume position, and fire in from four to six seconds.  (Such timing being from the last shot in the previous clip to the first shot in the new clip.)  Well-trained firers perform these steps in less than two seconds as an average.
    Immediate Action.  No provision for alibis is made in this match.  Consequently, the firers should from time to time have someone load malfunctions into the weapons.  That is, have someone load an occasional long round or one or more dummy rounds into the clip of live ammunition.  This procedure will accustom the firer to applying immediate action and to establish a system for clearing each type of stoppage.
    Affect of High Rate of Fire upon the Rifle.  A rifle which is not glass bedded is affected by firing of this type as the action becomes loose in the stock with the resultant loss of accuracy.  This is not necessarily true when using the rifle only occasionally for light practice.  It is a fact that a greater number of repairs are necessary for rifles used in this type of firing.  That is, handguards, screws, stocks, trigger groups, and so forth tend to loosen more quickly and must be replaced or repaired.  The barrel does not wear any more quickly unless practice is with armor-piercing ammunition.
    In general, it is advisable to use a separate rifle for this match, if for no other reason than psychological, since many firers lose confidence in the number-one rifle after it has been used for this type of firing.  For the most part, civilians are restricted to the use of one rifle and should adjust their amount of practice accordingly.
    General Notes.
  1. It is not uncommon for each trained rifleman on a team to average an expenditure of 24 rounds at 600 yards.  This amount is desirable for experienced personnel but not for those untrained.  Untrained or inexperienced personnel should try for from 14 to 20 rounds each at the 600 yard stage and from 18 to 24 rounds at the 500 and 300 yard stages.  The 200 yard stage is considered of no value.
  2. It is desirable for state team members to have the use of two rifles - one for the standard course of fire and one for the Infantry Trophy Team Match.
  3. The singularly most important point is that each firer knows the zero of his rifle for rapid fire at the long ranges.
  4. Sight alignment must be maintained at all times.  This requires that the face be "welded" to the stock.
  5. The body should be positioned directly behind the rifle when assuming the prone position.  The right leg should be as far to the right as possible.
  6. It is a mistake to attempt the highest rate of fire at the longest range (600 yards) unless the team members are highly trained and have superior weapons.
  7. The "center of mass" sighting system seems to be best at 500 and 600 yards and the "6 o'clock system" best for 200 and 300 yards.
  8. The wide front sight blade seems to be best for untrained firers.

 

 
New Post
12/2/2012 9:00 PM
 

 Finally made it to the range with my new RGS.  I zeroed irons using Federal 180 grain pointed soft point (what I found locally in abundance) and polymer mags (2-5's and 2-10's).  Function was superb with no problems feeding or ejecting.  Accuracy was acceptable at 100 yards.  I couldn't be happier with the setup.  Next I will be exploring glass and laying in more ammunition.  

 
New Post
12/3/2012 1:31 PM
 

Good to hear. I know that every rifle Evan and I have tried the 150 gr federal soft point with has really liked it for accuracy.

Yesterday, I decided to put everything else on hold and get the stock mods done that I wanted to do on my RGS. Basically, flush fit swivel cups front and rear both at 6 and 9 o’clock, and adding a light rail. I had previously procured the swivel cups (Grovetec from brownells), and I went to Sportsmans and got a piece of rail as all the ones I had one hand were either to short or too long. I was looking for basically a rail about 4” long, and decided to go with a magpul polymer section to save weight and I just didn’t feel like hanging a light there required steel. It also saved me a few bucks. My plan is to get a synthetic stock when one comes onto the market that I liked so this was an interim proof of concept as much as anything else. Overall I am pleased with how it turned out, but I have already found a couple of things that I would change or may change in the future. All told this project took about 5hrs of hands on work as I went slow to not mess up things. I also wanted to use the tools I had as much as possible to keep costs down. In broad strokes here was the process:

Pull the action out and remove the front sling swivel stud. The swivel stud screws into a recessed knurled nut. After unscrewing it from the bottom I re-screwed it into the top and then used it to remove the nut and set them aside. Next it was time to measure, re-measure, measure again, and finally measure one more time where I wanted the rail piece to go. As it turned out the rear hole on the rail matched up with the front swivel whole pretty much perfectly for where I wanted to mount the rail. I got it marked and started to whittle on the stock.   I used a dremel tool with a small router bit for the gross removal and then used a wood rasp to even things out and shape things a bit. This is the first place I would have made a change. The router bit I had to use was pretty small, and it probably would have been worth the cost to find one that was a better fit. What I had worked great there was just a bit more handwork due to the width of the bit and evening out the two-three channels I was cutting out. This part was the hardest and took the longest, with frequent breaks for fit checking everything. The channel ended up being a bit wider than I needed, and again I think this was the result of having to work both sides separately due to the bit width, but it is not terrible and really is probably something you wouldn’t notice if I didn’t point it out. I was also very carefully to go low enough that the barrel was free floated. After getting the slot milled and dressed I used a very fine sand paper to smooth it and re-dress the edges around the barrel slot and light rail slot. 
Next it was time to mount the rail, and issue number 2 arose. When I decided to use the swivel hole and swivel hardware I didn’t really take into account that the way the hole is relieved the nut would be on the bottom of the rail and not the top. The result is that the nut, which fit the relived screw slot tightly, would only be held in by the knurling. Due to the length of the swivel and the already present countersink, it was not possible to relieve the topside for the knut. I decided to add some adhesive and in essence glue the knut into the whole. I then tightened up the swivel. I had already countersunk a section of the rail for a screw head. So using the barrel as a guide and the tension of the swivel stud I proceeded to center the rail, and then drilled a small guide hole for a wood screw and screwed it in. Only time will tell if this is a 100% solid solution or if I need to add another screw to anchor the rail, because the swivel knut is not holding in the bottom of the rail. Finally, I bolted everything together, and used a dollar bill to make sure everything was free floated. Incidentally, it appears as if Ruger left a pressure point at the very front of the stock so from the factory it wasn’t free floated. I never tested it with a piece of paper so I am not certain, but it looked that way.   
The next project was adding the swivel cups. I have found that I really prefer a side mount sling for carry whether it is for administrative carry, during a class, or while hunting. I have found that the rifle just hangs better alongside my body or a pack, and is more accessible and secure than other slings I have tried. As a result the plan was to add swivel cups on both the side and bottom of the stock front and back. The first thing I did was figure out where I wanted the wholes to be. For the bottom it was pretty easy. I just used the existing sling swivel in the rear, and use the front sling swivel as a guide only moving it back enough to make sure I was clearing the rail. The side of the stock was easy, and I basically just used a CTR as my reference since I have a lot of experience with them. What I hadn’t really taken into account is that the swivel cup is 0.5”, and that you use a 9/16” tap as the final step of creating the hole. This issued reared its head when it came time to figure out the front placement. I am not sure that I actually have enough meat in the stock below the barrel channel to install the cup. I had an aha moment, did I mention it was getting late, and grabbed a Fortis swivel cup mount out of the pile of parts waiting to back on my DD, and put it on the scope rail underneath the scope, and voila problem solved. For mounting the cups I just followed the directions, except I had already read that they were wrong for the threading on the tap. The cups went in easy peasey, and I was back in bidness this morning. The rifle carried great, the light was there, and handy, but unobtrusive. When I got back to the truck it was time to test fire, and hopefully find that I didn’t need to re-sight in the rifle. Turns out that I do need to re-sight in the scope, but I am not sure if the irons are good or not. I am sure the smart gents and ladies in the crowd have already figured out what I missed when I went to the Fortis mount on the rail. They completely occlude the irons. I will do a bit of research, but I think I am back to trying to figure out a side sling mount in the stock. I think that what I will find is that the only option is a standard sling swivel or have the sling attach on the bottom of the stock in front, which is how my Remington is setup.  It works, but just doesn’t carry as nice. So that was the final issue that I should have figured out prior to getting started because I might be left with an unneeded swivel cup in front. 
All in all I am pretty pleased with the light rail, and still have to sort out the sling mounting issue.
I started out taking pictures, but as it was starting to get late I didn’t get many there at the end, and have yet to take final finished shots. I will try to get those up.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
New Post
12/3/2012 6:16 PM
 

 Thanks for the post on your rail work.  Can't wait to see more pictures.

 
New Post
12/10/2012 7:25 AM
 

There was just a article on this gun in the new "Living Ready" magazine. This might be my next rifle. If it was a 30-06, it would already be on it's way home.

 
New Post
12/10/2012 4:32 PM
 

I'm dying to see these pics Scott! I've been thinking about a RGS for a while, it's not my dream scout, but its a lot of scout for the money! I also really like carrying my long-guns slung this way, so I'm excited to see what your project looks like, thanks for sharing it with us!

 
New Post
12/10/2012 9:18 PM
 

I admit I have been remise. I didn't get it done this weekend, other stuff came up, and I will be traveling the next couple of days. I will get on it later this week. I did get it resighted in, and accuracy seems to be about the same (2moa with Milsurp) so I didn't screw anything up.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
New Post
12/10/2012 9:57 PM
 

Awesome sauce! I'm lookin forward to it 

 
New Post
12/13/2012 2:53 PM
 

I hope they were worth the wait. Just a note, I used the rear sling swivel hole as a guide, and it turned out to be slightly off center. I also forgot the trick of taping the wood prior to drilling to stop any splintering so the edges of the swivel cups are a bit rough. I have been working with this rifle enough that I know I want to come up with a side sling mount. I need to break out the micrometer and confirm the swivel cup is a no go, at which time I will probably put in a standard swivel stud. Enjoy.  Oh I am including a comparison pic of the fixed 2.5 and VXR 1.5-5 and one of the brass kiss. If there is anything specific you want to see let me know.


Co-Owner Hill People Gear "If anything goes wrong it will be a fight to the end, if your training is good enough, survival is there; if not nature claims its foreit." - Dougal Haston
 
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