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1/17/2017 7:21 AM
 
I think the HPG harness would be more comfortable for longer duration compared to the GoRuck. That said, I found the GoRuck more comfortable for EDC compared to the TAD Litespeed and the MR Futura harness with similar loads (10-15lbs?) I attribute that to the pack riding higher on my back and just fitting my body frame better.
 
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1/17/2017 10:26 AM
 
There is NO  day pack that carries better than a Umlindi, PERIOD. 

 

My daughter spends her days traipsing around a state university campus carrying heavy books. She has mild scoliosis. Her back was always bothering her until I convinced her to try my Umlindi (she didn't like the color). Her back stopped hurting and she got used to the color. I bought her her own, of course.

 
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1/17/2017 6:21 PM
 
msilk00 - the way you describe your set up seems pretty similar to why I almost always have a PALS pocket attached to my Umlindi, even when it isn't packed full - so that I can keep everything I usually need to access quickly outside of the main pack. I do this daily (power cords, computer, etc) and for camping (fire starting, tarp, etc). I hadn't consciously considered overload capacity for outdoor packs, but that's exactly why I steered towards HPG once I used them and away from "typical" outdoor packs like Osprey, even when sometimes I want the comfort and lightness of an Osprey.

TAK - I wonder if the frame sheet and stay have anything to do with how it has helped her back? I definitely wish I had a book bag like the Umlindi when I routinely carried a small library on my back... Although I'd still attach a pocket so I could easily keep pens and computers and sundries for easy access! Hm or a buttpack (which I don't have)... They gotta stop making stuff that I want to buy!

- J
 
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1/18/2017 12:00 PM
 
GoKartz wrote:


TAK - I wonder if the frame sheet and stay have anything to do with how it has helped her back?

- J

 Maybe but I think its mainly that HPG shoulder harness.  I'm not making this up just because I like HPG gear, this was an unsolicited endorsement on her part.  I didn't query her in order to prevent a "Hawthorne" effect.

 
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1/18/2017 2:37 PM
 
The adjustable torso length plus framesheet and stay on an Umlindi transfers a portion of the load off of the shoulders and into the lumbar area. The yoke style harness encourages proper torso length adjustment (and discourages "cinching a load up onto the shoulders") which helps nestle the pack into the lumbar area where it can best transfer weight to the pelvic girdle. Reducing weight on the top of the shoulders and upper back reduces spinal compression significantly. Then whatever weight is left on the shoulders is draped with the yoke to minimize PSI and eliminate pressure points. In short, several things work together

God bless GoRuck and many other pack makers, but there is really no comparison between how most companies think about packs and how I think about them. The very first thing I think about is engineering for load transference to the most advantageous part of the skeletal system with everything else flowing from that. Most companies think about the features they want the pack to have first and may or may not stumble backwards into a pack that carries well. I took great delight last year at SHOT in talking to guys wearing various well thought of packs (including GR) who came by the booth -- "wow, I bet it's really sore right here (points to trapezius, or lower back, or brachial plexus)". "(look of wonderment) yeah... how did you know?". "one look at how your pack is designed. it doesn't have to hurt like that". The reputation we've built for comfort with heavy loads speaks for itself, but we haven't been very loud about telling potential customers about it or telling people in general that it is by design. Our new print marketing materials are pushing "HPG design principles" and "engineered load carriage" pretty hard.

We are fortunate in this matter that your conduct will be your marker and, thus, your reputation. The conduct of others on this forum has been, and will continue to be, their marker, and thus, their reputation. In the west, a person invests in one's reputation carefully. - 112Papa
 
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1/18/2017 3:00 PM
 
No offense to GR, but GR doesn't hold a candle to the HPG system. And it is a system.
 
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1/18/2017 5:05 PM
 
Evan hit on it before I had a chance to respond to GoKartz question to TaK. My anecdotal experience with the Umlindi and Connor is that while it has great weight distribution via the harness, I feel the stay and frame sheet allow it to contour and hug my back which helps keep the weight close and put it where its supposed to go against the lumbar.
 
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1/19/2017 3:23 AM
 
Evan - I guess that explains why in my rucking days and when I backpacked pre-HPG, my traps/upper back would get a fantastic workout, but whenever I've used a full Umlindi I can't recall feel sore there.
 
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1/19/2017 8:50 AM
 
GoKartz wrote:
Hey msilk00 -

Thanks for the thoughts. I really didn't intend for this thread to come off as a GoRuck bash, so I'm glad to see some positive comments about them. I think it was Fowler above that pointed out that EDC bags (or bags people like to use for everyday stuff) tend to be be panel loaders like the GR1, and that's one of the reasons I love using the PALS pocket as a light work bag. They're ridiculously convenient to access most or all of your gear without doing a gear dump.

Anyways, I bring that up again because you prefer the GR for EDC but would pick something like the Umlindi for outdoor stuff... Do you think that part of the reason you went that way was because the GR was panel loader and the Umlindi is a top loader? Or was that choice more based on how they carried?

(We all kinda got side-tracked on the whole Go Ruck thing, but Top vs Panel was the original topic.)

J

 

I pulled the GR out after thinking about this thread some more and simply stuck my Tara inside of it with everything I normally carry. I then shouldered the Goruck and imediately noticed the familiar hot spots. 

I cinched the pack down and got it up high on my shoulders. I then clipped the sternum strap and tightened it just a bit. This allowed the load to be transferred across my chest more and alleviated the hot spots (sorta like a reversed kit bag). I carried it around like this for about 15 minutes and was relatively pleased but I still don't like carrying a pack like that. It "works" but is not my preference.

I'll be keeping the GR for lighter (but bulkier) travel loads because it is nice to quickly fold everything out and have access to it in a hotel room.

 
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2/20/2017 7:54 PM
 
veriest1 wrote:
GoKartz wrote:
msilk - do you have any of the HPG bags to compare how the GR1 carries vs HPG shoulder straps? They look like "normal" backpack straps, and those were always slipping off my right shoulder (it hangs about an inch and a half low from an injury "back in the day"). They have one particular version of the GR1 - coyote with a hook-and-loop interior - that really looks awesome, and is what got me to start this thread. For day to day stuff I'm big on organization, and I really like how panel loaders work for me daily - heck, for a while I carried just a PALS pocket on a pocket harness, but the inability to integrate a water bottle frustrated me. I always carry water, and I'd rather put it in my bag than carry in hand. How does GoRuck's quality compare to HPG?

Veriest - it took me a while to process this, but you replaced your GR1 with a Tara? Is the GR1 that small, or did you not carry it to capacity? I was under the impression it was Umlindi sized. I love the Tara, but can never figure out how to make it work with my laptop. The umlindi always seems like overkill, mostly because if I have space ... I fill it. "If you build it they will come." Which makes me think I "need" a Connor and see if I can get my Aston Insert to fit (it seems like it should based on specs)... But I really gotta stop giving the Hill brothers every spare cent I have...

You're correct - I never fill the GR1 up because it's so uncomfortable with a full load. The picture above is about all I ever carried in it and all that fits in a Tara. If I want to carry a jacket or insulation layer it either gets strapped to the Tara or, sometimes, stuffed inside the Tara in the case of a down vest.

For longer trips now the plan is to put bulkier items (like clothes and laptop) in my Umlindi and dock the Tara to it. Or I could utilize the GR1 if I still have it at that point. 

Heavier loads that include water or a tripod and the like are what cause the GR1 straps to cause me discomfort. In these situations with small but 20+ pound loads the Tara, or rather the HPG harness, still works well for me. I can dock it to my PB in a pinch and carry close to 5+ liters of water if needed which is something I was never able to do with the GR1.

Here's how I've been utilizing the Tara. Normally I don't EDC a 3D camo suit but you'll get the idea. That's an XL K pullout in there. I do keep a HPG 917 stuff sack hanging behind the Tarainsert for overflow. The 917 is way to big if filled up so I don't do that and just tuck the excess material against the pack body. I guess it wouldn't really be a problem if it extended up higher than the top of the pack though.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/R4pk15]
[/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/R4pk15]2017-01-10_07-04-59[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/47269634@N00/]veriest1[/url], on Flickr

I can speak to GoRuck's quality as well. The GR1s built really well and I think the number of folks who "ruck" with them have proven that in spite of all their weird "special forces" marketing. 

 

I would love to see more of that tara with the pockets on the outside. While the Tarahumara looks badass, and carries like a dream- I keep looking for clamshell packs. I don't think I'll ever get a Goruck though because they just seem OP...and even if I did ever find a replacement pack I'll just end up getting an HPG yoke for it. 

 
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2/20/2017 8:03 PM
 

I can't stand top loaders. I like how the Tara holds shape well despite being front loading. It does feel limiting as far as quick access-but maybe that would be remedied with pull out pouches.  The front loading center zip makes sense because it's fast for many applications and has a low chance of failure. However, I'd much prefer a clamshell system in the same size.

I really love being able to lay my pack down and know exactly where everything is, being able to see it as soon as the front opens. If my BFG DAP was as sturdy and comfy as my tara, I'd use it, but the Tarahumara comfort is unparalleled. 

 
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When humans first set foot in a new continent, they came in small groups under their own power, bringing only the gear they needed. Most simply called themselves The People. Over time, those who chose the rougher freer life of the up country came to think of themselves as the Hill People.
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